Posted on 12/08/2014 2:31:02 PM PST by piusv
Pursuing interreligious dialogue and opening hearts and minds to others are the way to face troubled times, stressed participants in the Third Catholic-Muslim Summit held this week in Rome.
“Our meeting here, I would think, is a sign of hope for our troubled world. It is a message to all humanity, especially to us, the members of the great family of Abraham – the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims,” said Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, following the conclusion of the Dec. 2-4 meeting, which was themed “Christians and Muslims: Believers living in Society.”
In addition to Cardinal Tauran, the principal leaders of the summit included Prince Hassan bin Talal of Jordan; Mostafa Mohaghegh Damad, an ayatollah and director of Islamic Studies at Iran's Academy of Sciences; and John Bryson Chane, an Episcopalian bishop.
Chane stressed that “Christianity and Islam have at this moment in time a great opportunity to work together effectively with governments and civil societies currently in turmoil.”
“They can begin to re-shape a culture of peace in a world too much torn apart by sectarian violence and political pilfering. Christianity and Islam can and must be the bridge builders of the 21st century,” he concluded.
Prince Hassan bin Talal said “the schisms in the world today have become so numerous, the inequities and inequalities so stark, that a universal respect for human dignity must once again be brought back to the consciousness of the international community. Now, more than at any other time, an ethic of human solidarity and a new international order are required.”
All of the participants agree that now it is the time for a renewed Christian and Muslim dialogue, starting from mutual acceptance and in order to find a common path.
Cardinal Tauran underscored that “one of the important bases for the acceptance of the other and therefore for social peace is to be aware of the unity of the human family. It is one in its origin: God; one in its end: God; one in its fundamental needs: air, water, food, dress, shelter, etc. The human aspects of our life are one: joy, sorrow, hope, despair, fear, etc.”
“Having all this in common, the legitimate differences – ethnicity, religion, culture, political choices – should not be a reason for refusing the other, ignoring him or her, marginalizing, persecuting, or even eliminating him or her, as is unfortunately the case in our days, especially in Iraq and in Syria, and in particular towards the Christians and Yazidis,” Cardinal Tauran maintained.
Abraham Skorka, a rabbi and a friend of Pope Francis, took part in the summit, saying that “in the 20th century were consummated horrible crimes in the name of new anthropomorphic religions. Nazism and Stalinism killed millions of human beings on the altar of their fanatic and insane beliefs.”
From the 1970s on, he then stressed, “many went back to the old religions,” but “their returning was not to the pureness and spiritual depth, but to their extreme and aggressive aspects.”
“As tolerance and acceptance of the other was not in the vocabulary of the anthropocentric religions, some new expressions of the renewed traditional religions do not know about the other, in his right to be different,” he concluded.
The Christian-Muslim Summit is a gathering of Christian and Muslim leaders from around the world and experts from both religious traditions who come together for purposes of interreligious and intercultural relationship building and to address issues of conflict that exist between religions and nations.
Pope Francis met the summit participants Dec. 3, reminding them that dialogue is “the path to peace.
Pope Francis also thanked the summit for their work on the path to dialogue, since “this helps us to strengthen our fraternity.”
The fourth summit is expected to be held in Iran.
No. It was the defeat of Islamic forces that led to their retreat. There is no common ground Islam. They are commanded to kill, convert, or subdue "the people of the Book"
Especially when both belief systems cherish the combining of church and state. This whole idea of blending church and state is about as wholesome as blending Pagan EnvironMentalism with fervent GovernMentalism. It’s an anathema to the founding principle of Americanism IMO!!!
Some can never get over being stupid.
Funny how there were no actual Jews at the meeting. Dhimmi fools. Francis will destroy the Church -- as intended.
You should read “God, Philosophy, Universities” by Alasdair MacIntyre.
K, I'll check it out. But first, tell me how you have a dialogue with someone who believes the Koran?
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"
Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Convert, submit or die. Those are the choices Islam gives non-Islamists.
Robert Spencer does a good job here explaining Islam - Blogging the Qur’an Start at the bottom.
This Catholic says, “Bull S**t.” Islam is not a religion. It is a tool used to control every aspect of a person’s life, and in a very degrading manner.
Jesus said, “I am THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life. NO ONE comes to the Father except by ME.”
To my eyes, this leaves no room for the Muslims to be included in some type of wishy-washy conversation. Their god is Deceiver, a murderer.
Good question. You find people who want to talk who don't try to push something down your throat.
Right now there are so many people in Iran converting to Christianity that the country is no longer punishing them for doing so.
Now, if there are muslims today who are willing to convert that means there are also people who would be willing to dialogue without cramming a Koran down another person's throat.
Francis thinks it would be good to find people like that, not necessarily willing to convert, but willing to talk.
Now the type of dialogue desired is not two people trying to convince the other that they are right. It is rather two people willing to listen to each other and to find common ground.
The kind of common ground has historically been on the basis of classic philosophy, that type which goes back to the Greek and Latin philosophers.
If it would be possible to get everyone at the table to agree on certain first principles, then there would be true progress.
While I love you and your leader’s positive spin on the matter it’s just not biblical. Scripture tells about Ishmael and his descendents and it isn’t positive.
Genesis 16:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.”
They will only concede to buy time for your demise the end always justifies the means what ever they may be. Since they don’t acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Son of God then that makes them of their Father the Devil. Now since the Devil lies or as Scripture tells us he’s the Father of lies I personally don’t see the point of dealing with him since he will not concede EVER!
2 John 1:7-11 New International Version (NIV)
7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
On the surface it sounds just peachy, but that does not make it reality.
I am not speaking theologically. I am speaking philosophically.
Both Christians and Muslims shared a deep interest in Greek philosophy.
Both had their own set of commentators on Aristotle.
It was sort of like they were both studying Latin as intellectuals. And wrapped up within that language they were able to converse.
This only happened for a short number of years but it was quite productive, before a fatwa was issued and Muslims were no longer able to converse philosophically with Christians.
If you can imagine Christians and Muslims sitting down talking about natural law and being in agreement, that is what I am talking about.
The Koran orders believers to slit the throat of a non-believer
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Right now there are so many people in Iran converting to Christianity that the country is no longer punishing them for doing so.
Then they are not following the Koran.
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"
Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Now, if there are muslims today who are willing to convert that means there are also people who would be willing to dialogue without cramming a Koran down another person's throat.
These are the same people. Those who convert no longer follow the Koran
Francis thinks it would be good to find people like that, not necessarily willing to convert, but willing to talk.
The earlier Popes saw the necessity of Crusades, not conversation, to save Western Civilization.
Now the type of dialogue desired is not two people trying to convince the other that they are right. It is rather two people willing to listen to each other and to find common ground.
There is no common ground with Islam.
Sura (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Sura (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make them prisoners,"
The kind of common ground has historically been on the basis of classic philosophy, that type which goes back to the Greek and Latin philosophers.
The Taliban ‘respected’ other beliefs so much they destroyed the statues of Buddha in Afghanistan. ISIS destroyed the tomb of Jonah in Nineveh. The Muslim brotherhood threatened to destroy the pyramids and Sphinx in Egypt.
And from the Haddith:
Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah
Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’”
If it would be possible to get everyone at the table to agree on certain first principles, then there would be true progress.
Islam means submission to Islam. This is the first and only principle of Islam.
This is not just me. Here is a quote from an 1899 book by Winston Churchill, "The River War", in which he describes Muslims he apparently observed during Kitchener's campaign in the Sudan
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
I can’t converse with you any longer.
Just be glad I'm not a Muslim. You keep your neck!
BTW, that is why Marines are called 'leathernecks' - when they fought the Islamist pirates ('To the shores of Tripoli') the Islamists would follow the Koran and try to cut off the necks of the Marines. They developed large leather braces to keep their heads.
You haven't 'conversed' at all. You express beliefs that are Judeo-Christian and reflect Western Civilization. I showed you how your beliefs are exactly refuted by the Koran, and believers of Islam would destroy Western Civilization. I showed you how Churchill observed the same reality.
You choose to ignore the reality of Islam.
Easy.
Islamists are patient if nothing else.
Now they can finish up the job they started before the Crusades. The downfall of western civilization and conquering Catholicism and attempting to conquer all that is Christian.
True believers will never capitulate.
But CINO’s will and we’re seeing it now.
I beg to differ in one thing.
It DOES leave room for muslims to be included.
Only if they repent and accept Christ and come to the Father through Jesus.
They are not excluded from being able to partake of salvation.
But that does mean that they MUST turn their backs on islam.
No such thing as a *muslim Christian*, any more than there are *homosexual Christians*
While fighting against the only REAL chemo in that part of the world, Israel.
Remember where Islam comes from, and it is NOT from GOD.
Yet the good news is that more of the Muslims are coming to faith in Christ because the Gospel is going out to the far corners of the world.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.