Archbishop Chaput: The Church Needs to Say Any Kind of Extra-Marital Sex is “Disordered”

Aleteia ^ | November 21, 2014 | Matt Rourke/AP/SIPA

[NorthMountain]

then, “breach of order” works best for me

I think "breach of order" or perhaps "irregularity" is probably the sense in which the original author uses the terms "disordered". At least, that's what I got from it.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Me too.

[BlatherNaut]

POpe Francis is not promoting "church-recognized polygamy (adultery)".

So who was it that ordered Cardinal Kasper to prepare the ground with his "serene theology" and then ordered the question of adulterers being admitted to Holy Communion to be put to a vote and published and distributed the relatio promoting same? Was it some mystery man?

Rash judgment is making a judgment on insufficient evidence, on dubious evidence, or against evidence.

Nothing could be less "rash" than simply acknowledging the indisputable facts before our eyes.

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Bishop Athanasius Schneider:

"...Regardless of this lucid truth which was taught constantly and unchangingly - because unchangeable - through all the ages by the Magisterium of the Church up to our days as for instance in “Familiaris consortio” of Saint John Paul II, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and by Pope Benedict XVI, the issue of the admissibility to Holy Communion of the so called “divorced and remarried” has been put to the vote in the Synod. This fact is in itself grievous and represents an attitude of clerical arrogance towards the Divine truth of the Word of God. The attempt to put the Divine truth and the Divine Word to a vote is unworthy of those who as representatives of the Magisterium have to hand over zealously as good and faithful rules (cf. Math 24, 45) the Divine deposit. By admitting the “divorced and remarried” to Holy Communion those bishops establish a new tradition on their own volition and transgressing thereby the commandment of God, as Christ once rebuked the Pharisees and Scribes (cf. Math 15: 3). And what is still aggravating, is the fact that such bishops try to legitimize their infidelity to Christ’s word by means of arguments such as “pastoral need”, “mercy”, “openness to the Holy Spirit..."

http://www.pch24.pl/against-pharisees,31907,i.html

[BlatherNaut]

While all sin is disordered, homosexual activity is INTRINSICALLY disordered, because while heterosexual activity is disordered outside of marriage, homosexual activity is disordered by its very nature. (I still think it is a mistake leading to confusion to lump them together.)

Your statements are supported by Scripture and Tradition.

[piusv]

I hope it will lead to a greater participation on the part of people who aren’t Christians. I went out of my way to welcome them, as I thought it would feel strange to them to attend a Christian event. But as I mentioned about our speakers, we even have an atheist speaking. We simply looked for the best speakers. Now, we’ve asked him to speak about subjects in a way that would not be contrary to Church teaching, but our goal was to have the best quality presentations and the best knowledge available. Twenty-four percent of our speakers are not Catholic. Most of them are Christians. A significant number are Jews. We have a Mormon leader who is talking about how Mormons keep families together, because they have a great reputation when it comes to family life, and we have an atheist who is speaking, which is very interesting.

Oh goody. More blatant denial of Mortalium Animos. The Conciliar Church moves further and further away from Catholicism and into apostasy.

[piusv]

Oh my gosh, I just read through most of the OP. Most of what this man said was lol-tastic.

[lastchance]

Yes, that is exactly the teaching of the Church. Thanks for stating it so clearly.

[lastchance]

Well we know that was Jesus’ main concern too.

Nope.

[NorthMountain]

Yeah ... I mentioned that.

[piusv]

I think it’s very, very important to talk about the fact that any kind of extramarital sex is wrong, and not just focus on homosexual sex. Any kind of misuse of our sexual powers is wrong. Any sexual activity outside of marriage is disordered. So I think if we use this vocabulary, we have to use it about all of human sexuality and not just focus on people with same-sex attraction. So it has to be in that context.

Isn't the Cardinal trying not to offend homosexuals here?

[Jeff Chandler]

Isn't the Cardinal trying not to offend homosexuals here?

It would appear so. I contend that distorting the Truth and causing confusion is too high a price for that.

[yetidog]

We are on the same page. But please understand that unfortunately, many do not. They don’t understand murder, envy, stealing, lying, fornication etc. in the same way that you and I do.

[NorthMountain]

Looks to me like he's trying to remind folks that fornication and adultery are wrong.

Any sexual activity outside of marriage is disordered.

Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

[ebb tide]

Cardinal Burke, the #1 hoppin-mad opponent of the Synod's weaselly ambiguity, was asked about speculations that Francis would "allow" the recognized remarriage of couples divorce; he replied that he had no evidence regarding "his [the Pope's] alleged support of a relaxation of the Church's teaching."

And look at what the vengeful Francis has done to Burke: demoted the good Cardinal from three significant posts. Meanwhile, Kasper says he does speak for the Pope; and the Pope does not contradict this.

I think your knowledge of "rash judgement" is about the same as your knowledge of latria. So, yes, I am getting tired of you repeating that insinuation of my actions.

[piusv]

I agree that it is sinful to have sex outside of marriage. Homosexual sex is intrinsically disordered and therefore not the same. It looks like Cardinal Chaput doesn’t want to make it clear that sodomy is a sin that cries out to Heaven.

[NorthMountain]

I am unable to read the man's mind, and I am unwilling to ascribe to him the basest possible motive.

In general I think folks these days, particularly on the internet, are entirely too eager to ascribe base motives to those whom they dislike or with whom they disagree.

YMMV.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think you're right in making the distinctionthat non-male/female sex is intrinsically disordered. As well, ejaculating up somebdy's butt or down their throat is intrinsically disordered, even if that someone is your lawfully married wife.

I add that because, since straight couples are still far more numerous than "gay" ones, I am fairly sure that there's more straight sodomy than gay sodomy. Hate to bring it up, it's so repellent; but I wouldn't want to mislead heterosexuals into thinking that anything they wanna do with their spouse is, by the mere fact that they are "Mr. and Mrs.", rightly ordered.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Isn't the Cardinal trying not to offend homosexuals here?"

No, I think he's trying to say that all sexual sins are offensive.

By far, I think, most socially destructive sins are done by heterosexuals: contraception, sterilization, abortion, divorce/remarriage.

THis ratio may change as society gets sicker and sicker.

[NorthMountain]

That's a fairly coarse way of putting it, Ma'am, and seems somewhat out of character for you.

It's all the more powerful because of its rarity.

[marshmallow]

Sure it's disordered. Any sin is disordered. Extramarital intercourse is disordered in fewer ways than sodomy, but it's still disordered.

The sexual act between a man and a woman is not intrinsically disordered. It was ordained by God for procreation. It's use outside of marriage does not in any way confer disorder on the act per se, since retains its life giving power.

The sin arising as a result of extramarital relations is particular to the perpetrator(s). It is their behavior which is "disordered", not the act.

Sodomy is intrinsically disordered by its very nature.