Archbishop Chaput: The Church Needs to Say Any Kind of Extra-Marital Sex is “Disordered”

Aleteia ^ | November 21, 2014 | Matt Rourke/AP/SIPA

[ebb tide]

Does this mean Chaput is telling Francis and Kasper to cease their promotion of church recognized polygamy (adultery) and for Bruno Forte to cease his promotion of recognizing the “goodness” in homosexual “unions”?

[Campion]

“Disordered” (in Catholic moral theology) is another term for “objectively sinful”.

[Salman]

"Disordered" rather than "sinful"?

Not the same concept at all.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

According to dictionary.com:

Disordered: suffering from or afflicted with a physical or mental disorder.

[Resettozero]

...only explaining why the notion of sin and disordered are different things in my mind.

I see.

But sin is more than a notion that exists because one may be religious or not.

Sin is a very real impediment (a noun, a thing, more than merely someone's thought) that separates one from the Eternal Living Father in Heaven, namely Almighty God whom we all must come to terms with, whether one believes He exists or doesn't.

He does.

[barney10]

Though I see many statements on adultery; I have been unable to find anything, said by Jesus or attributed to him that states premarital sex is a sin.

Yes I know Augustine and Aquinas have spoken on the issue; but where is it written that Jesus spoke on the issue?

[Mrs. Don-o]

POpe Francis is not promoting "church-recognized polygamy (adultery)".

Cardinal Burke, the #1 hoppin-mad opponent of the Synod's weaselly ambiguity, was asked about speculations that Francis would "allow" the recognized remarriage of couples after divorce; he replied that he had no evidence regarding "his [the Pope's] alleged support of a relaxation of the Church's teaching."

Rash judgment is making a judgment on insufficient evidence, on dubious evidence, or against evidence.

You might be tired of hearing this, but I guess I just have to keep repeating it.

[Mrs. Don-o]

In Cathoilic theology, all sin is recognized as being objectively disordered. SOme more than others. For instance, fornication with a robot is more objectively disordered than fornication with a human being of the other sex.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Must be one of those traditions of man.

/sarc/

[Tax-chick]

*snicker*

[Jeff Chandler]

Extramarital heterosexual intercourse is a sin, but it is not disordered.

I agree. Heterosexual intercourse is natural and normal in the physical sense while homosexual activity is not. This is obviously the meaning of the text in the Catechism, which does not refer to adultery or fornication as "disordered". (If I am wrong, please cite the text.)

I think it is a mistake to extend the term "disordered" to include any offense against God -- in the attempt to avoid offending homosexuals -- because it creates the very confusion the Cardinal would avoid.

[lastchance]

Sex outside of marriage is disordered. There is a solution for that, get married. However being attracted to a member of the opposite sex is not disordered (assuming it is appropriate and legal) while being attracted to a member of the same sex is.

[Jeff Chandler]

I must retract what I previously wrote. Please allow me to restate my position. Thank you.

.

While all sin is disordered, homosexual activity is INTRINSICALLY disordered, because while heterosexual activity is disordered outside of marriage, homosexual activity is disordered by its very nature.

(I still think it is a mistake leading to confusion to lump them together.)

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Exactly the Good Lord created Eve because He did not want Adam to be alone. We are then commanded to be fruitful and multiply, long before marriage was institutionalized. While sexual activity is sinful outside of marriage, it is certainly not a disorder. I think requiring celibacy as a prerequisite for service in the priesthood is more of a disorder than a man and woman expressing physical intimacy. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which mandates celibacy as a requirement for service in the priesthood. To the contrary, priests were married men in the Bible. So were the early popes, bishops and priests for that matter. Celibacy was introduced much later and for reasons that have nothing to do with anything that can be found in the Bible.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I don't think it's an attempt to avoid offending homosexuals. It may be an attempt to remind us all that our sexual sins are outside of God's order.

I have run into some FReepers (I name no names) who have defended a husband sodomozing his lovely bride on the grounds that if you are married, then anything you do is sanctified by the marriage bed. That's disorered. The fact that we all come into this word with a strong and unsavory tendency toward disorder of some kind--- a kind of moral entropy --- cerainly does indicate that we're all defective and disordered.

Like Lady Gaga says, "born this way."

A staple of Catholic theology. But we do have a Savior.

[NorthMountain]

< sigh >

1) You have quoted only one definition of "disordered".

2) You quoted a second, not first, definition.

I will not attempt to speculate as to why you have chosen to do these things, as I am not a mind reader. I will simply quote the definitions you chose NOT to quote, from your own source:

1) lacking organization or in confusion; disarranged.

2) suffering from or afflicted with a physical or mental disorder : a disordered liver.

Also:

nounbr> 1. a lack of order; disarray; confusion
2. a disturbance of public order or peace
3. an upset of health; ailment

Also

n. A disturbance or derangement that affects the function of mind or body, such as an eating disorder or the abuse of a drug. v. dis·or·dered , dis·or·der·ing , dis·or·ders To disturb the normal physical or mental health of; derange.

Also:

noun 1. lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion: Your room is in utter disorder.
2. an irregularity: a disorder in legal proceedings.
3. breach of order; disorderly conduct; public disturbance.
4. a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction: a mild stomach disorder.

verb (used with object)
5. to destroy the order or regular arrangement of; disarrange.
6. to derange the physical or mental health or functions of.

I offer these additional definitions in the hope that folks will find them useful and informative.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Well, then, “breach of order” works best for me. Because you should wait until you are married, although I think it is fair to say most of us did not.

[Tax-chick]

I agree with you. The more pervasive moral disorder, resulting in the more destructive societal disorder, is the violation of God's plan for man and woman and children.

[Tax-chick]

Because nobody wants to believe that something he or she enjoys is “disordered.” That’s a word we reserve for activities that don’t interest us personally.

[NorthMountain]

I think it is fair to say most of us did not.

I think it's fair to say most of us are sinners in need of a Savior. I think it's fair to say that most of us have done things that are "disordered" either by the nature of the act, or by putting the act in improper context.

I certainly fall into that category.