Where Fundamentalists Are Right: 5 Things Catholics Need to Take Seriously Again

ChurchPOP ^ | 2014 | Brantly Millegan

[millegan]

The term “fundamentalist” is a pejorative term today, used to label someone the speaker believes is an irrational religious extremist of some kind.

But a hundred years ago, the term was taken as a badge of honor by theologically conservative Protestants to distinguish themselves from liberal Protestantism. While liberal Protestants in mainline denominations were denying basic Christian teachings like the authority of the Bible and the bodily resurrection of Jesus, conservative Protestants called for going back to the “fundamentals” of the faith – hence the term.

There are obviously a lot of issues on which Catholics and fundamentalists disagree, but there are a few important issues for which fundamentalists take a lot of heat in our culture that Catholics actually agree with them on – or at least are supposed to. Unfortunately, in my experience many Catholics – afraid to have themselves labeled a “fundamentalist” – can throw the baby out with the bath water and end up denying beliefs espoused by fundamentalists that are also taught by the Catholic Church.

Here are 5 things that are already present in the Catholic faith, but that Catholics could learn from their fundamentalist brothers and sisters to take more seriously:

[Elsie]

That aside, over the past 2,000 years the Church has accumulated the work product of the best and holiest minds in Western Civilization, to which one can refer when in doubt of the meaning of a passage.

And yet could NOT keep merely 7 churches from jumping the tracks in the first century!

What a record to emulate!

[Elsie]

That aside, over the past 2,000 years the Church has accumulated the work product of the best and holiest minds in Western Civilization...

---

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

[ealgeone]

The Holy Spirit, which is one of the three persons in our One God, does what He does when He does it for His own reasons.

Experience shows that the Holy Spirit comes upon people only infrequently, and that only on rare individuals.

If you think the Holy Spirit is helping you understand what you read, and you have not had an earth-shattering, entirely unique, draining, and unmistakable supernatural experience, you are mistaken.

dude, do you read the Bible??

John 14:26 (NASB)

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 15:26 (NASB)

26“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,

[Springfield Reformer]

DSC: The Holy Spirit, which is one of the three persons in our One God, does what He does when He does it for His own reasons.
Experience shows that the Holy Spirit comes upon people only infrequently, and that only on rare individuals.

 If you think the Holy Spirit is helping you understand what you read, and you have not had an earth-shattering, entirely unique, draining, and unmistakable supernatural experience, you are mistaken.

EO: dude, do you read the Bible??

What's even worse is that list of "symptoms" for having experienced the Holy Spirit would be equally applicable to demon possession or a psychotic episode.  This is the really sad thing about an epistemology based on human experience and authority as opposed to the objectivity of the divinely inspired word.  

Romans 8:8-10  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.  (9)  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.  (10)  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

From the above passage we see it is not even possible to be a Christian without the Holy Spirit.  But the idea that the presence of the Holy Spirit would produce some "earth-shattering" experience is only partly correct.  It is certainly earth-shattering to be a lost sinner in pursuit of direct evil, only to have some nameless stranger interrupt your plans then disappear into the night with the parting words, the Lord works in mysterious ways.  And it is earth shattering to think you've got no hope, then, like the prodigal son, wake up in the midst of your mess and realize that God is calling you to himself with a love so beautiful you think it must be a mistake, but no, it's true, God really wants you for Himself, and won't quite chasing you until you stop running away.

But for the life of quiet godliness, to those who have come to Jesus, and been sealed by the Holy Spirit, the work of that Spirit is manifested in these more mundane exercises in the supernatural:

Galatians 5:22-23  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,  (23)  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

None of these should be unique, one-time experiences, but they are all supernatural. We are dead sinners until we come to Christ. None of these things come naturally, that is, from our fallen nature.  They only come as God crafts us into greater and greater likeness to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  But they are the birthright of all who name Him as their Savior, and it is a great tragedy to think that some would miss out on that for thinking the Spirit of God is as hard to come by as some earthly dignitary, when He is so close to each of us:

Psalms 145:18-20  The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.  (19)  He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.  (20)  The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

Peace,

SR

[RnMomof7]

DSC: The Holy Spirit, which is one of the three persons in our One God, does what He does when He does it for His own reasons. Experience shows that the Holy Spirit comes upon people only infrequently, and that only on rare individuals.
If you think the Holy Spirit is helping you understand what you read, and you have not had an earth-shattering, entirely unique, draining, and unmistakable supernatural experience, you are mistaken.

This is so sad... but it does show the truth of the word of God

1 Corth …13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.…

[RnMomof7]

“We need the Church to interpret Scripture for us.” To me it’s a no-brainer. Holier men than I, more intelligent, wiser men than I, have left their interpretations of the scriptures. Who am I that I should substitute my judgment for theirs

Do you realize that the "teaching arm " of Rome the magisterium has never produced an official, infallible bible commentary? They have given an infallible definition to 4 or 5 lines of scripture.. so Rome has no "official infallible" biblical teaching on 99.9999999999999%of the bible .... I guess that is because the Holy Spirit does no visit Rome ...

[terycarl]

in my very long life, I have NEVER seen a Catholic teaching proven false......never. That obviously is because you don't consider God's words to mankind to be any kind of authority...You seem to view the Bible the same way the muzlims do...

point out 1 or 2 or 3 Catholic teachings that have been proved to be in error....not your opinion, actual proof of error...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

placemarker

[Iscool]

point out 1 or 2 or 3 Catholic teachings that have been proved to be in error....not your opinion, actual proof of error...

Your religion teaches that it 'outside of the bible' oral, unwritten traditions were passed on down from the apostles...

The earliest church fathers say that if you can't find it in the scriptures, don't believe it...That's pretty significant...

For those of us who take the scriptures as absolute truth, it shows your religion is full of error...

[boatbums]

Then why, for the love of all things sacred, do Catholics CONSTANTLY appeal to intellectual prowess, education, degrees in theology, etc, ad nauseum?

Easy...they're only smart, intellectual, intelligent, educated and gifted scholars IF they are Roman Catholic. They can't possibly be if they are Protestants. ;o)

[metmom]

So I’ve noticed.

Because anyone who is anything will obviously come to the same conclusion Catholics do because agreeing with them PROVES that they are the intellectual elite.

wow........

[ealgeone]

Your post 167.....the false teachings on Mary being sinless, a virgin and assumed, that we have to go through Mary to get to Christ......for starters.

[delchiante]

Quote
no way to square away catholic teaching on Mary with the Bible. none whatsoever.

That is true.. but that ‘Mary’ has come down here and left some promises for praying the rosary to catholics. And they publish and teach them like truth.

scripture test can prove that that spirit is a liar... problem is, that spirit points to Jesus in number 14 of those promises..

Maybe she only lies a little or she was misquoted or she is the mother of just the catholic jesus.

Dont know how one tells the difference between the catholic mary and the catholic jesus with the protestant mary and jesus. They look alike..

Not sure if the bible ever says a lie will lead one to Truth...

[ealgeone]

Your post 173.....what are these "promises" Mary has left regarding the rosary....or anything else for that matter?

if these aren't substantiated by the bible then they are not biblical and hence false teaching.

[redleghunter]

Would you like to list those misinterpretations?

[terycarl]

For those of us who take the scriptures as absolute truth, it shows your religion is full of error...

that is an opinon at best...and isn't that called sola scriptura or something like that??? again, point out specific errors in Catholic teaching and your opinions don't count.

[terycarl]

Easy...they're only smart, intellectual, intelligent, educated and gifted scholars IF they are Roman Catholic. They can't possibly be if they are Protestants. ;o)

Scott Hahn

[terycarl]

Your post 167.....the false teachings on Mary being sinless, a virgin and assumed, that we have to go through Mary to get to Christ......for starters.

Noone teaches that you have to go through Mary to reach Jesus....Now as to the "false teachings" on Mary being sinless and a lifelong virgin...I've seen nothing from you to refute the thousands of years of Catholic teachings to that effect.....You might not believe it, but that makes no difference whatsoever!!

[delchiante]

The 15 promises were included in a ‘how to pray the rosary’ instruction manual with the rosary beads I received from a nice catholic..

They can be tested and proved to be false.. but something came down here and was quoted with 15 promises.
Catholics believe it was Mary.. they have a point with number 14 on the list.

She points to The Way, Truth and Life in number 14 of her promises:
14. All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ.

Maybe the catholic mary is different than the protestant mary. It is easier to think that then to think there might be two different Jesus’s..

[boatbums]

Easy...they're only smart, intellectual, intelligent, educated and gifted scholars IF they are Roman Catholic. They can't possibly be if they are Protestants. ;o)

Scott Hahn

Scott Hahn? Maybe you don't get my point. According to some RCs, people like Hahn can be considered brilliant theologians ONLY because they converted to Catholicism. If someone decides to convert FROM Catholicism to Evangelicalism or Protestantism, or doesn't leave for Catholicism - no matter how lettered, published, esteemed or respected they are in the theological realm - they LOSE that esteem in some people's eyes. A few here have even asserted NO ONE leaves Catholicism or stays a Protestant if they are "smart" or intellectual and every really intelligent theologian either remains Catholic or eventually converts. Do you agree?