Posted on 10/16/2014 6:19:45 PM PDT by Salvation
> “Yeah well Orthodox have already given in on the marriage divorce remarriage thing.”
No, they have a slightly different structure, I will explain. But first note they are not compromising on or even considering homosexual unions. I find these latter developments with respect to the Roman Catholic Synod to be very disturbing. My hope has been that the RCC would make a strong and inspiring statement in opposition to the homosexual normalization movement that is sweeping western societies. But it seems there is a lack of courage and that is disturbing.
For the Orthodox Christians, it is true that their priests are allowed to marry and keep families. But to advance in their Church to say Bishop the neophytes must be accepted into their monasteries and train to become a Monk. Orthodox Monks are not allowed to marry just as in the RCC. So the higher ranks of the Orthodox Church are similar to the RCC.
Are people (not monks) permitted to divorce and remarry up to twice?
> “Are people (not monks) permitted to divorce and remarry up to twice?”
I really don’t think there are such rules. Divorce is frowned on. God hates divorce and Orthodox Christians adhere to that.
But I think divorce within Orthodox Christianity does not result in a complete denial of communion. It may be a case by case situation. One thing I do know is that when people sin which they inevitably will, the Orthodox deacons and priests chide them on to not sin and to always strive to do better. In that sense people have a chance to renew themselves and try again.
Being a Christian is really hard. I don’t know of any other human endeavor other than science that is as difficult.
Is this the Fr. John from the Harrisburg Diocese that did the EWTN Q&A show with Fr. Bob? If so, I trust him.
I agree, it is extremely harrowing.
Because the Orthodox (Christian) Church already has divorce-remarriage-communion (up to 3 putative spouses, right?) and contraception to boot.
Look, I love the Orthodox -— really -— but I see no reason to join a church which gave way years and years ago on the very points which the Culture of Death was pushing.
That’s what I thought, so if the Catholics cave, it’s Orthodox Judaism for me.
Here is what I find on the subject:
http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/liturgics/athenagoras_remarriage.htm
It is important here to explain a fundamental element of the Orthodox Church’s doctrine, namely that the dissolving of a marriage relationship does not ipso facto grant the right to enter into another marriage.
I think it is pretty clear in the above statement that there is no blanket rule covering this 'mystery' of the Church.
I would ask that you read all of Bishop Athenagoras' writing on the subject in the above link. It is very very illuminating and I for one am immensely grateful for his wisdom and teaching.
As regards the Roman Catholic Church, I am also immensely grateful for their role and influence in my life but I am very disturbed by their recent considerations of homosexual 'unions'.
Homosexuality is a sin just as divorce is a result of sin. But whereas divorce 'may allow' a person calling themself Christian to repent and try again with or without communion, homosexuality cannot be 'tried again'; it must be given up and left in the past in order to enter the Church. If a former homosexual falls again into the sin of homosexuality, it must be thrown off again before a relationship with the Church can be considered. It is the idea that homosexuality can somehow be accepted inside the Church that is disturbing as it means the Church condones sin and hence leads to the Church's destruction.
The Catholic Church's writings on these subjects that I have been able to find seem to inject legalism and pay only lip service to matters of the human spirit. To be fair, other faiths fare no better. But the essay of Bishop Athenagoras above is a gem and serves the purpose of drawing us closer so that we can get a peek at God's will. I would like to see an equally great scholar and teacher from the RCC write such essays and I know such scholars and teachers exist. I would bet they can be seen in the writings of the members of the Catholic Synod but I understand these essays are kept hidden from public view.
My words are not as wise and eloquent or as satisfying as others much more learned on the subject and much more spiritual in their approach. My sentiments are crude and embryonic. But I hope I have brought an instance of wisdom to the subject by posting the link to Bishop Athenagoras' writing on marriage and divorce.
“Is this the Fr. John from the Harrisburg Diocese that did the EWTN Q&A show with Fr. Bob? If so, I trust him”.
Yes.
Cool. I really liked that show. Fr. John and Fr. Bob were really good at explaining things in plain English.
I regret that I'm going to be away from the keyboard almost all day today, and can't give your comments the attention they deserve. Very sorry about that.
Let me state again that, despite all its excellent gifts and graces, Orthodoxy does indeed allow for 2 divorces and remarriages, ---a man could have three living spouses from supposedly "valid" marriages (I don't know if the Orthodox Church uses the word "valid")(and of course, he cannot have them concurrently!)
As I understand it--- correct me if I'm wrong --- in the Orthodox Church, repenting means being sorry about the divorce and the subsequent bigamy of remarriage, but being allowed to "try again" by maintaining that second marriage, which the Lord Jesus calls adulterous. In the Catholic Church, repenting means being sorry about the divorce and remarriage, and "trying again" either by rejoining the first, true spouse, or by abstaining from further sexual relations outside of that first and only marriage.
And the Orthodox Church does allow contraception. I know of two couples, one former Evangelical and one former Episcopalian, who realized when they exited Protestantism that they had to choose seriously between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. They chose Orthodoxy in part because they wanted to continue in their contraceptive sexual practices.
If I am mistaken, jump in and set me straight. I will praise your name!! I venerate Orthodoxy and would love to be proved in error on this.
“sheesh, think man, Christ was Jewish”
He was, but as Christ He brought Christianity.
There is no “Orthodox Jew” in this world accepted by other Jews as orthodox who believes in Jesus as Lord and Savior. For a Christian to leave the Church and adopted Judaism is to abandon Christ by definition and practice. Didn’t any of that occur to you?
Reminding me that soon after Peter made his act of faith, he turned around and made a statement that Our LorD slap him down.
“Orthodox Judaism” descends from the sect called the Pharisees. That may be transcend back to about 200 BC. and it survived the destruction of the Temple. There were a number of schools in this movement, and the rabbis of later time took many things from one or another of these schools. But orthodox judaism as we expressed in the Talmud did not take shape until the 2nd century, and it largely disregarded the very important apocalyptic movements that were very strong up to that time, and which greatly influenced the Christian movement.
“Orthodox Judaism”
My point still stands - “Orthodox Judaism” is not Christian. It is Jewish and has no affinity for, nor belief in, Jesus Christ.
It was created as part of a reaction not only to Christianity but to other messianic, apocalyptic forms of Judaism, and of other sages. Let us say that Christianity is the true form of Judaism, one that better suits a people scattered among many lands rather than one, and no greater antiquity than Christianity. If we began as a “Jewish sect,”so did rabbinical, or orthodox Judaism, and about even before the destruction of the Temple.
“It was created as part of a reaction not only to Christianity but to other messianic, apocalyptic forms of Judaism, and of other sages. Let us say that Christianity is the true form of Judaism, one that better suits a people scattered among many lands rather than one, and no greater antiquity than Christianity. If we began as a “Jewish sect,”so did rabbinical, or orthodox Judaism, and about even before the destruction of the Temple.”
And, after all that, my point still stands - “Orthodox Judaism” is not Christian. It is Jewish and has no affinity for, nor belief in, Jesus Christ.
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