Posted on 10/05/2014 3:53:29 AM PDT by markomalley
-The existence of Jesus’ own apostles, along with their letters to newly started churches, and at the same time, that there was already a church being persecuted, including by Saul who became Paul, show there was a Jesus. As Paul wrote in one letter, there were still many eyewitnesses to Jesus’ appearances after His resurrection, and people, including church members, did travel around. The letters are full of Christians’ travels to visit each other.
-There wasn’t serious question about the New Testament books that were officially accepted as Canon (and the ones rejected). Making things official, though, removed doubt for people who might be less knowledgeable or wanted to accept heresy. The apostles and therefore the earliest leaders knew what was acceptable and who was acceptable (not a heretic). It was at least as clear as it would be to accept Billy Graham’s claim to be a Christian while rejecting John Shelby Spong’s or the Jesus Seminar’s authority.
-Cont’d
-Considering that God gave all people both knowledge of Him and a conscience, including the sense of our sin and need for forgiveness, it wouldn’t be surprising at all that some pagan myths share some similarities with Christ’s story - superficially, that is. In character they’re completely different. A metaphor for that might be that Christ is the key to reconciliation with God, and there is a matching keyhole in all of us. People try to please God in all sorts of ways, but Jesus is the only key that works to do that.
-More than being like any pagan myths, though, Jesus’ story comes out of Judaism. God had chosen the Jews and prepared a people to receive His Messiah, and that’s clear from Jewish Scripture. The Messiah was the ultimate concern of the Jews of Jesus’ time on earth. There were a great many prophecies about Him, including Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. The Jews even wondered of there would be two Messiahs since one seemed triumphant and one seemed to suffer for the people, but Jesus fulfilled both sets of prophecies.
How would you do that on a scroll with no word wrap? You would have to cut the scroll, add a piece, then sew it back together and then write what you wanted. And remember, the ancients did not leave spaces between letters or use paragraphs. It is not as easy as it sounds.
You are too humble. There are levels within levels. The deeper one investigates the more one discovers.
There are fundamental realities in the body of Judaic history and theology that defy scientific principles.
To understand the historical evidence for Jesus it is vital to study ancient Jewish history and the prophets. Jesus is, after all is said and done, the culmination of ancient Jewish history.
Because Mohammed is just a dead pedophile, long ago turned to dust in a goatherds' latrine pit.
Jesus, however, is God the Son and the Judge of all mankind. This guy, and others like him, have that knowledge deep inside them, but they're desperately fighting it, wanting it to not be true.
Modern scholars are notorious for getting things fouled up. Climate change, the myth of Obama, etc.
The fact that the scholars of Jesus`s time never made a big deal of him is just more evidence that he was the true son of God.
In other words, some of us are blessed through grace to have firm, unshakeable faith in God, despite any attempts to introduce doubt.
I wish the same for you, sincerely.
This is what you folks get for saying Adam and Eve were “made-up myths.”
hehe
Every ‘development’ of Christianity views what has gone on before as allegory, foreshadowing, or some such, while this new revealed doctrine is Absolute Truth.
I have no pro nor con re: religion. I realize, being Man, I have no concept of the finer workings that could/might be divine (origin of the Universe, the soul (good vs. bad)...Hell, how atoms form an ‘object’ but don’t bond to the next nearest ‘object’ (ie; touch two fingers together..pressure only)
IMHO, the greatest ‘ding’ is the church, picking/choosing of Books to include in the Bible. If they are the word of God/life of Christ, why would you keep ANY account OUT??
I enjoy the theological threads like these, great discussion all around, w/out the call (yet) of fire and brimstone :)
Every ‘development’ of Christianity views what has gone on before as allegory, foreshadowing, or some such, while this new revealed doctrine is Absolute Truth.
Good point.
How was your fast?
It wasn’t the miracles or even his words or to personally author some book that was his purpose coming to us,
It was that he came “according to the scriptures,” and ones long established to his then audience (Israel of 32 AD) and these same scriptures he very precisely fulfilled were widely acknowledged centuries before his arrival (even Herod’s ‘scholars’ knew where he was to be born) and he came to them at that time, and they were in that day a witness to it and it was for this purpose alone, and after this, seeing all this firsthand, Israel still did not understand, they willingly rejected their Messiah (also according to the scriptures) and today they remain blinded for a set time until that blindness is removed, and that day is still future even to our time.
Today we have been given the Holy Spirit, and he will bring us in and reveal things to us, bring to our remembrance, just as the gospels were written by this same help and guidance, he brings understanding and assembles and reveals like a cloud in our thoughts, those things which are still to come as it is written in the Prophets of the old testament and in the Psalms,
If any have not or will not receive the Holy Spirit, then what is written has far too much depth to take in or carry alone, and it will cause those refusing him while seeking answers to merely stumble about in the dark, and the truth will appear to them as nothing more than the words and accounts and deeds of men long dead, words to mean nothing more than to be debated over who actually said them, instead of what they reveal to us about the Prince of Life.
“For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: “ 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; you are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. “ 1 Corinthians 15:17-19
I think I’m more fascinated (if that’s the correct word to use) by how many can seemingly ignore the lateness of the hour we’re in, meaning the signs of this age being about to come to the full, we should all be awake and watching now, our redemption is drawing near,
But that aside,
The rejection of Jesus as an historical figure is a spiritual mark for anyone looking,
It is a very specific marker revealing the spirit of Antichrist,
It should cause anyone witnessing it to wonder how it is that in this day of books and vast libraries and online repositories of information, how someone so well informed with historical facts and very learned in the physical sciences should doubt Jesus’ historical existence, sure, doubt him if you’ve never witnessed or received his spirit, but to deny he “came in the flesh,” seems very strange even to the natural mind, it is a desire, they desire it,
They don’t really have a choice, this is a spirit empowered over them, a spirit with an absolute hatred of the truth, denying Christ, for which was already at work even in Johns day,
It does blind,
“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” 1 John 4:3
sorry, missed it.
Interesting point.
My post was more to illustrate than to take a position.
Interesting too though is that when Jesus taught the disciples to pray the “Our Father”, he taught them a standardized Hebrew prayer, not Christian in any sense.
You have got it bass-awkward. During the 18th century, many figures of the Enlightenment began cherry-picking among the figures they knew from classical writings who were famous for resembling Jesus in one way or another in order to make an assertion like yours. Problem is the surviving writings we have from the time of Jesus are maybe 5% of the total. Many, many figures we know nothing about except what appears as an aside in a surviving work. Ancient history is really just a patchwork of conjectures based on what does survive. But apart from this, there is no reason why a lot of people outside the Jesus movement would know or write anything about him. What remains, however, is more than what we have about Mohammed from non-Muslim sources, which is nada.
Thanks for you response.
How idiotic. What % of writings contemporary to the time of Jesus' ministry do you think even exist?
Very few I would bet, if I was a bettor
Why do some of these idiots think Jesus was a celebrity?
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