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To: matthewrobertolson

I work with a devout Mormon - he does not claim Jesus was married and said those who do are mistaken. Every religion has its black sheep/nuts/fringe “representatives”, even the Catholic Church. Yet, we constantly jump on Mormons - perhaps it’s some of that self-hatred coming out for those who claimed (and still claim) that Mitt was every bit as bad as Obama - when you have that sort of crap to clean up from your “thinking”, you will resort to any avenue to distract from your foibles (the last not aimed at you - enough here will feel the slap).


57 posted on 09/13/2014 4:14:09 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb; Elsie; Tennessee Nana; Colofornian
I work with a devout Mormon - he does not claim Jesus was married and said those who do are mistaken. Every religion has its black sheep/nuts/fringe “representatives”, even the Catholic Church. Yet, we constantly jump on Mormons - perhaps it’s some of that self-hatred coming out for those who claimed (and still claim) that Mitt was every bit as bad as Obama - when you have that sort of crap to clean up from your “thinking”, you will resort to any avenue to distract from your foibles (the last not aimed at you - enough here will feel the slap).

This screed is like censoring criticism of liberalism by only focusing on one aspect of its deviancy and relegating that to a fringe element. In reality the heresy that Jesus was married was not simply held by black sheep/nuts/fringe “representatives,” but by early Mormons leaders, and consistent with its idea that God was/is married and a polygamist .

From Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry , which well substantiates its work:

Brigham Young taught that Adam was a polygamist: "When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives with him" (vol. 1, p. 50).

Some of the Mormon people believed "that Joseph Smith the Prophet taught that Adam had two wives" (vol. 26, p. 115).

Some of the leading authorities of the church went so far as to proclaim that both the Father and the Son were polygamists. Jedediah M. Grant, second counselor to Brigham Young, made these comments:

Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles.... He says, "The grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed him." ...

The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based on polygamy.... A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus, and his followers. We might almost think they were "Mormons" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 345-46).

Apostle Orson Hyde asserted:

It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; ... no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the least of it.

I will venture to say that if Jesus Christ were now to pass through the most pious countries in Christendom with a train of women, such as used to follow him, ... he would be mobbed, tarred, and feathered, and rode not on an ass, but on a rail....

At this doctrine the long-faced hypocrite and the sanctimonious bigot will probably cry, blasphemy! ... Object not, therefore, too strongly against the marriage of Christ ... (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 259-60).

I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children.

All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this—they worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfill the commands of his Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough "to fulfill all righteousness;" not only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more righteous and important law "to multiply and replenish the earth" (vol. 2, p. 210).

When the "Gentiles" stated that polygamy was one of the "relics of barbarism," Brigham Young replied: "Yes, one of the relics of Adam, of Enoch, of Noah, of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob, of Moses, David, Solomon, the Prophets, of Jesus, and his Apostles" (vol. 11, p. 328).

On another occasion Young said: "The Scripture says that He, the LORD, came walking in the Temple, with His train; I do not know who they were, unless His wives and children ..." (vol. 13, p. 309).

Orson Pratt commented:

... it will be seen that the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion, was a polygamist, ... the Messiah chose to ... by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of wives under the Christian dispensation....

We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His first Born, and another being upon the earth by whom He begat the tabernacle of Jesus, as his only begotten in this world. We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives were to be married. We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time; ... it would be so shocking to the modesty of the very pious ladies of Christendom to see Abraham and his wives, Jacob and his wives, Jesus and his honorable wives, all eating occasionally at the same table, ... If you do not want your morals corrupted, and your delicate ears shocked and your pious modesty put to the blush by the society of polygamists and their wives, do not venture near the New Earth; for polygamists will be honored there, and will be among the chief rulers in that Kingdom (The Seer, p. 172).

If none but Gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives (p. 158).

It is interesting to note that some members of the Mormon church still maintain that God and Christ are polygamists. John J. Stewart, writing in 1961, explained:

Now, briefly, the reason that the Lord, through the Prophet Joseph, introduced the doctrine of plural marriage, and the reason that the Church ... has never and will never relinquish the doctrine of plural marriage, is simply this: The major purpose of the Church is to help man attain the great eternal destiny suggested in that couplet ...plural marriage is the patriarchal order of marriage lived by God and others who reign in the Celestial Kingdom. As well might the Church relinquish its claim to the Priesthood as the doctrine of plural marriage (Brigham Young and His Wives, p. 41).

Plural marriage was a common practice among God's chosen people.... Mary, Martha, Mary Magdalene and many other women were beloved of Jesus. For a person to say that he believes the Bible but does not believe the doctrine of plural marriage is something akin to saying that he accepts the Constitution but not the Bill of Rights (p. 26).

Writing in 1966, John J. Stewart continued to maintain that plural marriage "is the patriarchal order of marriage lived by God and others who reign in the Celestial Kingdom ..." (Joseph Smith the Mormon Prophet, p. 69).

LDS Apostle Orson Hyde wrote, "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana and Galilee" (J. of D., Vol. II, p. 82). And LDS Apostle Orson Pratt said, "If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women (Mary, Martha and Mary Magdalene) were His wives" (The Seer, p. 159).

Pratt again said, "We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of His Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives were to be married" (Ibid., p. 172).

The tenth LDS Prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith, was asked if Jesus was married. His answer was, "Yes! But do not preach it! The Lord advised us not to cast pearls before swine!" (from a letter dated March 17, 1963). - http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims2.htm

....We have a packet of photos from current LDS books on God being married, having sex with Mary, etc. See Godhead and Virgin Birth Photos.

A helpful book would be Where Does It Say That? This contains about a hundred photos from early LDS books showing some of their crazy teachings, like Jesus being married, etc.

Another good book is For Any Latter-day Saint: One Investigator's Unanswered Questions.]

Meanwhile, Mormonism is overall radically contrary to NT Christian faith.

Would you believe a religion from a man that

1. Claims to have had visitations by God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son, the angel “Moroni,” John the Baptist, the apostles Peter, James and John, plus the Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah? (Elias in the New Testament is simply the Greek rendering of Elijah, a fact Joseph Smith was ignorant of).

Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD” (Ezek. 13:7, 8).

2. Claimed that the angel “Moroni” (who is nowhere found in the Bible) told him every single church, without exception, and their essential beliefs (which Mormons build upon) were corrupt? (in which case the gates of Hell did prevail against His church, that of born again believers: Mt. 16:18; cf. 1Cor. 12:13).

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed(Gal. 6:8).

3. Wrote the Book of Mormon by hiding an occultic “seer stone” in his hat and dictating words?

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD” (Dt. 18:10-12)

4. Writes in the same book a fantastic and detailed tale of an immigration of Hebrews to South America, which supposedly formed a vast society. Later, after a tremendous civil war, one tribe of this fictitious people is said to have migrated to N. America, even to New York. And that Jesus Christ appeared to these Indians after His resurrection in Israel.

For all of which people and events (unlike the Bible) there is no real archaeological evidence (not even for their weapons). In addition, DNA and other scientific evidence actually refutes it, while the Bible makes it clear nothing of this sort took place..

More

61 posted on 09/13/2014 5:35:26 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: trebb

//I work with a devout Mormon - he does not claim Jesus was married and said those who do are mistaken. //

See my post above. He is the one mistaken, it is the words of their own leaders. It was very common doctrine and still is in high LDS populations like Utah.

It isn’t fringe teaching but core. In Mormonism you cant become a God without being married and Jesus earned his Godhood (I can quote LDS sources for that as well).

BTW, I jump on all pseudo-Christian cults. I know Mormonism best because I used to be one, then God rescued me from it.


111 posted on 09/13/2014 3:16:20 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: trebb
I work with a devout Mormon - he does not claim Jesus was married and said those who do are mistaken.

Show him the QUOTES from MOrmon leaders.

Then ask him if his still is going to say that Mormonism does NOT teach that Jesus waS/IS MARRIED?

182 posted on 09/14/2014 7:36:40 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: trebb
The "devout Mormon" may not make the claim...but others before him have...

"We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time."

Orson Pratt, 1 of the original 12 "apostles" as quoted in The Seer, p. 172 (1853)

Many mormons are quite ignorant, most willingly, of their history and the teachings of their "leaders".

An "apostle" is not a black sheep, even though the revisionists in SLC sure make many into black sheep by "revising", or should I say, "receiving revelation" that the former was "in error".

Funny thing for a religion that claims these folks are appointed/anointed via direct revelation from "god"...

238 posted on 09/15/2014 11:46:47 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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