Posted on 09/12/2014 6:28:11 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
According to Latter-Day Saints (LDS, Mormon) President Orson Hyde, Jesus was married to several women, including Mary Magdalene, and had biological children.
"..[In John 2,] Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do. Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. ... We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified. ... I do not despise to be called a son of Abraham, if he had a dozen wives; or to be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives; and though he did cast seven devils out of one of them, it is all the same to me. ... I shall say here, that before the Savior died, he looked upon his own natural children, as we look upon ours; he saw his seed, and immediately afterwards he was cut off from the earth; but who shall declare his generation?"
-- Hyde, at the Mormon General Conference, on 6 October 1854. (Printed in Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 82.)
Apparently, this position had support from Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, Orson Pratt, and others.
The LDS organization has since denied these claims. A spokesman said, "The belief that Christ was married has never been official Church doctrine. It is neither sanctioned nor taught by the Church. While it is true that a few Church leaders in the mid-1800s expressed their opinions on the matter, it was not then, and is not now, Church doctrine."
Still, Hyde's is an allowed position within Mormonism. That is concerning.
Of course, Christ is the figurative Bridegroom -- but He is not so literally, in a carnal sense! Also, for the record, the "seed" of His mentioned in Isaiah 53:10 refers to our spiritual relationship with Him, in the sense of John 12:24 and Galatians 3:26.
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You are continually wrong in your attempts to malign Prots with your spurious shotgun, and are even reproved by brethren who obviously are not in "full communion" with you. .
http://comparing-views.com/
•“according to the [Mormon] Church … three gods”
•"The words Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have for the Mormons a meaning totally different from the Christian meaning”
•“The marriage of Mormons ... with a validly baptized person is not sacramental marriage"
Mormons are not Christians
The Catholic Church teaches that those who have been properly baptized have a right to be called Christians (CCC1271).
According to ETWN (Eternal Word Television Network), “Mormons are not Christians is the official Catholic position; specifically, the Church does not accept the validity of Mormon baptism, though she does accept the validity of non-Catholic Christian baptism” (ETWN). “
Mormons are not Christians because they do not believe that Christ is God. This belief defines a Christian” (ETWN).
"Although Mormons certainly consider themselves to be Christians, the Catholic Church does not consider them to be Christians, either sacramentally or theologically. The Church has ruled that Mormon baptism is not valid, which means that Mormons are not Christians by baptism. Since Mormons believe in a plurality of gods and do not believe in Christ's divinity (as it is understood by orthodox Christians), they are not theological Christians either." (ETWN) .
“Those who deny the doctrine of the Holy Trinity deny that Christ is God. Now if one denies that Christ is God, he is denying an essential aspect of Christianity" (ETWN).
In contrast, Vatican 2 Rome teaches:
LUMEN GENTIUM: "..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities…"
They most certainly are not, but are best avoided as they are fundamentally critical to your claim that the only "real Christians are Catholics,
So despite what defined Protestantism in contention for core Truths and distinctives, and despite what your church says in distinguishing Prots from Mormons, and despite what other RCs say, and despite what FR says (though you likely are ignorant of it), for polemical purposes (and apparently to get needed blog hits) you insist on labeling Mormons "Protestant" and essentially flaming them who contend against Mormons as non-Christian, far more than RCs.
Reminder from Jim Robinson: "Free Republic is a pro-God site. The one and only true Judeo-Christian God as taught to us by KJV with no additional editing or books of fiction..I have zero faith in Joseph Smith or his so-called Mormon religion and do not want it taught on FR as gospel Joe Smith was a false prophet and his book is false gospel (look it up in KJV). Those who cannot live with that are certainly free to post elsewhere."
Thank God JR sees what so many RCs will not.
Jesus was INVITED to the wedding.
If He was the groom, he would not have needed an invitation.
You don’t need an invitation to your own wedding....
We now return you to your Thread Hijacking already in progress
Very good!
Like father, like son. Once a Roman Catholic has spoken, so the matter is settled. Or so they often presume.
If the sole reason for Jesus' incarnation was to just be a good example to others, you might have a point. But, Jesus came to earth as a man to be the once-for-all sacrifice for sin. He knew why He came, how long He had and when He would die because He is Almighty God. Getting married and having a family would have circumvented that purpose and would have been completely irresponsible leaving a wife and children destitute. No, Jesus was NOT married and had He been, there wouldn't be any reason for omitting the record of it in Scripture. A good place would have been Paul's letter to the Corinthians when he said:
Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? (II Cor. 9:5)
That is absurd. To have a female apostle would be more unusual than being celibate, Jn. 13:23; cf. Mt. 26:20) as would giving His mother into her care, (Jn. 19:26) as would to be one of those fishing with naked (or barely clothed) Peter, (Jn. 21:7,20) and being the writer of the 4th gospel, (Jn. 21:21-24) attributed to John.
This is what comparing Scripture with Scripture reveals, but The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. (Proverbs 14:15)
If it floats your boat to misread/ misunderstand me me so be it.
When you start out with an invalid premise everything that follows is invalid.
You want to quote Catholic teaching great it would do no harm and might do some good. But don't misquote it.
Catholics believe that the faith is on a three legged base. Bible, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium, all EQUAL
It seems to me---and if I'm wrong, verga will likely correct me---he's saying that Mormonism is no different/worse than Protestantism.
Am I right, verga?
//I work with a devout Mormon - he does not claim Jesus was married and said those who do are mistaken. //
See my post above. He is the one mistaken, it is the words of their own leaders. It was very common doctrine and still is in high LDS populations like Utah.
It isn’t fringe teaching but core. In Mormonism you cant become a God without being married and Jesus earned his Godhood (I can quote LDS sources for that as well).
BTW, I jump on all pseudo-Christian cults. I know Mormonism best because I used to be one, then God rescued me from it.
//To make His wife as a non-person would also be contrary to how the Lord treated others, and taught us how to do the same.//
To be fair, in Mormon doctrine God the father is also married (and a polygamist) but keeps the names of “Heavenly Mother(s)”.
Yes, I can source that from LDS writings.
//For Christians there are only two choices, Catholic or protestant. If you are not fully in communion with the Catholic Church and profess a belief in Jesus you are protestant. //
Umm...no. Protestants are a breakoff of Catholics. Mormons are part of the ‘restoration’ branch and are pseudo-Christian cult.
BTW, The Pope even said while Protestants are separated brethren, Mormons are not and not protestants. Also Catholics will accept Protestant baptism for conversion, but not Mormon baptism.
No problem, sourcing Mormon doctrine is part of my ministry.
Mostly ancetodal, but I do deal with those who have left Mormonism and are transitioning out and I see it often. Also the LDS have a meme that “if mormonism isn’t the true church, then the Catholics must be” (which is illogical) and there are many similarities in structure and even doctrine and practice.
I can think of at least 20 people I work with off the top of my head who either were both LDS and Catholic.
However they reject Protestantism as much as, if not more than Catholicism.
Perhaps you should reclassify them.
Of the 14 core doctrines of the Christian faith, both Catholics and Protestants agree. Mormons do not agree on a single one.
After seeing some of the threads here involving a core of about 4 or 5 Catholics, I can see how some of the Mormons would feel comfortable with those individuals, as similar in personalities.
//The possibility that a lot of us (maybe most of us after so much time) have the blood and DNA of Jesus as part of our ancestry is uplifting and spiritually a positive thought. //
So you reject the idea that Jesus is God?
//There is mention of a “beloved disciple” in the scriptures. It would have been unusual for a practicing Jew of those times to be unmarried beyond his teen years. Maybe that disciple was His spouse. Someday He’ll tell us.//
Brush up on your bible. That was John and it was not all that unusual.
People seem to forget that Jesus wasn’t just one of us, He is God incarnate.
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