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Locked on 09/27/2014 9:10:14 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Godwin’s Law |
Posted on 09/11/2014 11:19:06 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski
They were unbelievers/not spiritual brothers and possibly pretty young...
They must have got 'em all...
>>”Wherever two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them” <<
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Occurs mostly far from churches.
Few ever gather in his true name, or for the purpose of his name, and gathering in the name of the rabbinical curse can be of no value.
God says plainly that he does not DWELL in temples made with hands.
I believe him!
I’m not going to start with you on that sacred name cult stuff. New Testament scripture is clear.
“My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”
Do you see the last three words of the verse you have been basing everything on? DOERS. Jesus himself says his mother and his brothers are those hear and DO the word of God. Being a spiritual brother isn’t enough. You have to be a DOER of the word of God. Our good works are the fruits of our accepting that we are forgiven. Faith without works is dead.
As to the idea that he disowned his mother via this verse, it is preposterous. Mary is to be revered. She has an honored place. Jesus was speaking as to principle and not as to fact. We know he did not reject his mother. Indeed, at least by the time of the wedding feast of Cana, she knew that he was a miracle worker and, so, some kind of man of God. We also know that his brothers took some time to come around to accepting him as the Messiah, but they did, and they were crucified for the faith. What good works have you performed relative to the martyrs, that you say they were rejected by Jesus as not being his spiritual brothers.
Touche
Is a giggle allowed here?
No.
Although I'd be interested in hearing someone explain how YOPIOS and the fruits from that hasn't led to the destruction of our civilization. I suspect I'll be waiting a long time, however. Perhaps they could also explain how the future of protestantism and all of the defects it entails will be able to overcome the theological relativism it created which has become a mainstay of modern western religious thought. It's their mess, I'd like to see how they're going to clean it up with the atheists and the muslims at their throat. But how can they? With what authoritative voice will they speak? They're compromised.
But then who am I kidding? Protestants don't really care about any of this. For a protestant it's all about the, "personal relationship I have with Jesus Christ" and nothing will be allowed to come between them and Jesus. Not even civilizational concerns. Radical individualism is the order of the day. Or maybe its a certain level of fatalism that protestants share with the muslims. There is something to be said for that, and if that's the case then they should stop pretending they care about what happens here on Earth.
Either way, I see no reason to retract any of my statements. Protestants know where the true Church is and in their pride refuse to accept it. As a result, western civilization is lost. One person wants to condemn me to destruction and eternal damnation, another wants to exile me from FR. Like they say if you're taking flak you're over the target. Perhaps its time protestants did some inner reflection about their chosen profession of faith. It's not too late. Holy Roman Catholic Church awaits with her arms open. I'll entrust this to our Blessed Mother.
"We don't need to go anywhere to find Him. Where two or three are gathered in His name, He is in the midst."
"Um... That’s Old Testament, old covenant times. God destroyed the Temple for a reason. Just as the veil was torn because it wasn’t needed any more, the temple was destroyed because it wasn’t needed any more."
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Honestly, "metmom", those replies are totally missing the point.
The point of my posts (#737 & #740) to editor-surveyor was one made in response to his point in post #732 which stated that God is not present in a local chapel simply because the chapel was made by human hands.
My point to editor-surveyor was simply that God Himself said that He often most certainly does find a way to make special use of (and to make His "Special Presence" available to humans in) places made by human hands (e.g., the "Sanctuary" at the time of Moses). Your responses to me are completely irrelevant to my point there.
The God today is the same God as the God in the time of Moses on earth. (You do believe that, don't you?) That same God was available in the time of Moses to all those humans everywhere in the world back then too. But God chose (in His Sovereign Will) to have people make a special place for them to meet for certain aspects of their life of worship in His Special Presence. (That's just a true fact, if God is not a liar. Your opinion regarding that is absolutely irrelevant.)
Now, as to your point that we are in New Testament / New Covenant times, and the Jewish Temple is not needed any more, what does that have to do with God (in His Sovereign Will) using things made by human hands for His Holy purposes?
For example, didn't God use a cross made by human hands to do something special in the New Testament? Did God (in His Sovereign Will) choose to write the Bible you read all by Himself, or did He choose to have it written by many human hands (every single word in it), translated by human hands, printed by human hands, sold by human hands, placed on the internet by human hands, (etc.)?
God often chooses (even today) to use many things made by human hands for His Holy Purposes. That was my point to editor-surveyor.
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Do you post stuff about Mormons? (I generally skip Mormon threads, but, from your cryptic response made here, I'm guessing you must be a Mormon.)
(From the content of some of your posts in the past which I have occasionally taken the time to read, I would have been more inclined to guess that your views are more closely aligned with those of the "Moonie" denomination than the "Mormon" denomination, but I stand corrected if you are a Mormon.) :-)
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On the contrary, the credibility of a writer (like that of a witness giving testimony at a trial) is of the utmost importance to discerning and discriminating readers!
For example, if the non-stop liar President B-O wrote a book or article about anything, would you even bother reading it, knowing his zero crediblity? If you ran into a foreigner who was unfamiliar with B-O's penchent for spouting non-stop heinous lies, sinister prevarications, and error-filled blather, do you think it would be a good idea to warn that foreigner about B-O's habit of telling an endless stream of lies, or do you think it would be better to keep that foreigner totally ignorant and in the dark about that falsehood-spouting B-O?
Only a fool would read a book or an article by a non-stop liar and error-spouter like President B-O and think they were somehow getting the truth.
As far as "excoriating the author", all I did was point out the truth about her. It just seemed like "excoriation" to you for some reason - you should really ask yourself why that is so.
(By the way - a true example of "hypocrisy" would be a poster who "excoriates" another poster for merely posting the truth about something, and then cynically calls that truth "excoriation".)
"Do you believe the Vail was rent giving us access to the very throne of God and no longer need those?"
"You don't believe anything changed after Christ's death and ressurection? 'wherever two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them'. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? "
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You're totally missing the point of my replies to editor-surveyor in posts #737 and #740, relating to God (the only God that is, was, or ever will be) choosing to use things made by the hands of men for God's purposes. (See my reply regarding this to metmom in post #834.)
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You are missing the true, full dimensional sense of these texts, which is referring to God's Special Presence (as opposed to the impossibility of God being "confined" by anything manmade).
What you have to keep in mind as you study the scriptures, is that, in the Bible (Matthew 21:12-13), it also says,
And Jesus entered the temple of God and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer'; but you make it a den of robbers'."The Temple was built by human hands, but it was God who made it "His House" -- can you see the subtle but real distinction, and the compatiblitiy of those seemingly (but not really) contradictory statements?
We cannot "confine God" (just like our bodies as Temples of the Holy Spirit cannot confine the Holy Spirit), but God can and often does make use of things made by human hands and consecrated to God, just like He said. (That is obviously true, unless you think God lied in Exodus 25, or you think Jesus lied in Matthew 21.)
Acts 7:28 and its reference to Isaiah is explained in more detail here in "Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary", as also shown below, and this may be more helpful to you when studing all theses texts in context.
It is God who chooses to make a human being, or a place (like a mountain), or a manmade object (like a temple, or a chapel) a special place for humans to approach God in a special way. God is omnipresent, so He cannot be confined anywhere, but He can choose to make His Holy Presence more available and approachable for humans at a specific, particular, special location, wherever and whenever He wants to.=============================================================
Acts 7:48 Commentary.
But the most High dwelleth not in houses made by hands. God is every where, nor is his presence confined to the temple, which was already once destroyed; and what if it be destroyed again, as Christ foretold? God must still be adored, worshipped and served, as he was before the temple was first built, which was only by Solomon. (Witham) --- Dwelleth not in houses. That is, so as to stand in need of earthly dwellings, or to be contained or circumscribed by them. Though otherwise, by his immense divinity, he is in our houses, and every where else; and Christ in his humanity dwelt in houses: and is now on our altars. (Challoner) ---It is not so much for God, as for ourselves, that we build temples, and it is a pure effect of his goodness and mercy, that he permits us to build them to him. Places consecrated in a particular manner to his service, where he gives the most sensible marks of his presence, are of assistance to us, when we render our homage, address our vows, and offer our prayers to the Deity. St. Stephen's design in this part of his discourse, is to prove that the true religion may subsist without the temple; therefore, that he could not be guilty of blasphemy, supposing he had even used the words which the malice of the Jews put into his mouth, that Jesus of Nazareth would destroy this place. (Chap. vi. 14.)
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(I have to leave this discussion now, but I urge you to contemplate those thoughts carefully.)
That has nothing to do with the conversation...
As to the idea that he disowned his mother via this verse, it is preposterous.
Are you hearing strange voices in your head??? You didn't hear (read) me saying anything like that...
We also know that his brothers took some time to come around to accepting him as the Messiah, but they did, and they were crucified for the faith.
You must have a different bible than the ones I have...That's not in any of my bibles...
What good works have you performed relative to the martyrs, that you say they were rejected by Jesus as not being his spiritual brothers.
I'm trying to show you the truth of the scriptures...I'm sure God appreciates that...
The USA.
The Constitution.
The Bill of Rights
Show me the most highly Catholic countries in this world and I'll show you some of the most impoverished third world hell holes.
Show me Protestantism in Northern Europe and GB and I'll show you the Empire that the sun never set on.
I'll show you scientific advancement and the freest nations.
I'll show you the nations which defeated the Nazi's.
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