Posted on 09/03/2014 6:36:07 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
The saints aren’t dead.
You teach that Jesus is a creature? I was not aware that theologians of Protestant denominations have eliminated the Nicene Creed. When did that happen?
“Begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. . . through Him all things were made.”
Hebrews 9:27 indicates otherwise. If you can prove to me that Mary did not physically die, then I may listen to you—though you still have other hurdles to overcome.
“This is a primary dividing line between Protestants and Catholics”
Not the protestant Martin Luther. He had a great devotion to the Blessed Mother. So protestants pick and choose what they liked about Luther and disregard the rest.
No--I was referring to Mary.
You know what Freerepublic needs? More Catholic v Protestant cat fights. Let’s get it up to 2 or 3 threads a day. That will really help advance the conservative cause.
Read what Martin Luther had to say if you would like. Otherwise I really don't have a concern over your disbelief. More Mary for me.
Yep! I do not know what motivates people to post the articles they do. But it would be nice if we ever actually stuck to the issues of the article.
If the Bible is an arrow pointing to Christ, and salvation through Him alone “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life..” then where in the OT, or New does it tell one to pray to Mary?
This is rhetorical as: NOWHERE. In fact the Bible only points to Jesus in all it’s writings.
At the cross Jesus told John “behold your mother”. Mary is the mother of all those who wish to come Jesus.
__________________________________________________________
That is nonsense. Jesus did tell John to behold His mother but that meant that since Jesus would no longer be there to take care of His mother that He was giving responsibility of taking care of His mother to John.
Mary was a very fine woman indeed but we have no reason to believe she was deified. Mary also had mortal children and a mortal husband. She was a woman among women. When Christ told John to behold his mother He did not give His mother authority over John, in fact the opposite was true, John was the new caretaker of Mary.
The Church’s deification of Mary is a mistake, she does not hear or answer prayers IMHO. That being said most of us have religious beliefs that are nonsense to others. I hold no ill will because someone prays to Mary and I respect them for at least believing in something and following their beliefs, I just think that particular one is wrong.
Besides--why would a God who loves me enough to suffer, bleed and die for ME, not listen to me directly? Why should I go through Mary?
Exactly, I have nothing against Catholics personally, but I am kind of over seeing so many Papist Apologist posts which HAVE NOTHING to do with Conservatism, and conservatives fighting liberals (it’s different with the new articles that point out how the Obama Admin is forcing Abortion/restriction of religious freedom on Catholics, etc because that’s actually news).
The Popes (men) teach us to pray to Mary (woman).
Jesus (Son of God) taught us to pray to God directly.
Given the choice of listening and obeying either men or the Son of God, I choose the later.
“No need for ‘saints’ to get between us.”
They don’t get between us. They get around us both. They are our family, our brothers and sisters in Christ, not enemies.
“Jesus (Son of God) taught us to pray to God directly.”
Actually it’s THROUGH Christ, but why let little technicalities like truth interrupt your thoughts?
This is not a straw man arguments. There are countless such stories. Mary is the most perfect of all God’s creation heaven and earth and even before His mission on earth began, it was at her suggestion water was turned into wine. That’s no straw. Anyone who does not believe in the Miracle at Lourdes and Fatima are condemned to oblivion. The final words from the Cross: “Mother behold thy Son: Son behold thy Mother.” Having emptied Himself on the Cross, Christ finally gave all that was left on earth to all humanity, His own mother!
I am Catholic and will remain so all my days and beyond. But I do not believe this story for an instant. I’ll assume it is not meant to be factual but even as a teaching story it is not believable.
The majority of Protestants do believe Mary was special in that they regard her as the mother of Christ who gave birth as a virgin. They don’t title her Mother of God or believe she remained a virgin but most don’t dismiss her as just another woman.
There are sects that believe she was no more than a vessel a sort of rent a womb but that belief is in the minority. Most realize her fiat had an important role in salvation history. They know that she was with Jesus at the foot of the cross and understand that her grief was very real.
Oh and I doubt most Protestants have any problem with the salutation of Elizabeth to Mary, after all it is in the Bible. What they object to is using it as a prayer and the addition in that prayer to Mary being called Mother of God. This is not proof that they are against Mary but that to them worship which includes prayers is reserved for God alone. They do not have distinctions such as Adoration, Hyperdulia and Dulia.
“Mary is not like any other children of Adam, stained with sin. No! The Angel called her FULL OF GRACE AND BLESSED AMONGST WOMEN. Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and consequently Mother of God. There is no higher dignity to which a creature can be raised. The Gospel says that the generations will proclaim her blessed and you are trying to despise her and look down on her. Your spirit is not the spirit of the Gospel or of the Bible which you proclaim to be the foundation of the Christian religion.”
Now, a 14 year old boy...Catholic deception know no bounds...
When Jesus was asked by the Apostles how to pray what was his response? Did Jesus say to call on him? Did Jesus say to pray through him?
NO! Not to Mary, not to the Apostles, not to the Saints and not even to Jesus himself. Jesus taught that we should call on and address God directly. So let us examine the truth of the scriptures:
Mathew 6; 1-13 (NIV)
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’
Luke 11:2 (KJV)
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
The Catholic Church in no way deifies Mary. We in no way, shape, or form believe that she is God, ever was God, or ever will become God. She is in no way equal to God. We simply believe that because she is Jesus' mother, she is worthy of honor. Not the honor due to God alone, but the honor of being His mother and the "first Christian". Just as you would honor your best friend's mother, you should honor Jesus' mother if you consider Him to be your friend.
And just as, under some circumstances, you might ask your best friend's mother to encourage your friend to do something for you, you might also ask Jesus' mother to encourage Jesus to do something for you.
It is in that spirit that we Catholics honor and pray to Mary.
The words of the first half of the Hail Mary prayer come directly from the Gospel. The second half comes from our heart.
Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Directly from the Gospel.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death. Actually, this part is based on Scripture, too... The intercession of Mary on behalf of the hosts of the wedding feast at Cana. With the confidence that comes from that example, its specific wording comes from our heart.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.