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Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your Own Self'; Worship Is Not for God.'
Christian Post ^ | 08/30/2014 | Leonardo Blair

Posted on 08/30/2014 7:00:33 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Victoria Osteen, wife of megachurch preacher and New York Times bestselling author Joel Osteen, is now facing withering criticism online for a viral video clip in which she is shown telling congregants at Lakewood Church that obedience, worship and church attendance is not for God but themselves.

"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side in approval. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy…"

"So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered.

Erick Erickson, politicly conservative blogger and editor-in-chief of the blog site RedState.com, summed up his reaction to Mrs. Osteen's pronouncement in a quote from the 1995 movie "Billy Madison."

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely, idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent, response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. May God have mercy on your soul," it ended.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: joelosteen; markdriscoll; marshillchurch; materialistic; money; osteen; victoriaosteen; worship; ybpdln
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To: ravenwolf
So what difference does it make between the Olsteen’s if she says something stupid when Joel, the dude, says stupid or evil stuff all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaE9w8RNJao

101 posted on 08/31/2014 5:15:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: HarleyD

“joy may be full”
Joy is not happiness.

“worship is for our happiness and we should do it for our happiness.”
So if we don’t leave happy, worship has failed.


102 posted on 08/31/2014 5:27:53 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious they are trying hard to ignore.)
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To: Snickering Hound

Like many cultists; Vicky has that ‘Marshall Applewhite’ look going on...


103 posted on 08/31/2014 5:40:20 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (Yehovah saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

You mean like the Christians being slaughtered by ISIS?


104 posted on 08/31/2014 5:54:07 AM PDT by Gamecock (Not responsible for errors resulting from posting via my "smart" phone.)
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To: Elsie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaE9w8RNJao


I have no argument about Joel Osteen as I have never listened to him, my comment was based on what was said by Victoria Osteen, the head line got my attention so I read it.

If Joel Osteen considers Mormons to be brothers in Christ that is fine with me.


105 posted on 08/31/2014 5:58:02 AM PDT by ravenwolf (s)
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To: ravenwolf

You mean your wife, daughter, mom, Freepers like me?
No, I like to hear women talk, I mean women should not be teaching or preaching to the congregation.


I was giving you a hard time. I agree with you. I go to an evangelical free church. Women teach women in bible study or speak to women at events, put don’t teach men.


106 posted on 08/31/2014 6:20:49 AM PDT by Linda Frances (Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.)
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To: sunrise_sunset
Moronic or not, it was something that made people think. I still think of it from time to time.

You are right about the notion of feeling good being simplistic. Otoh, when you peal away the many layers, it is rare that actions deviate from the most basic motivations of either gaining pleasure or avoiding pain.

The argument then is which is the stronger motivation, gain pleasure or avoid pain. One of the biggest determinants of a "successful" person in life is their impulse control and how they handle delayed gratification. This is true for a Christian life or a secular life.

Perhaps altruism in its most pure form would be found in those who sacrifice themselves to save another, who give no thought to themselves, their welfare, even their own life.

These acts raise "love your neighbor as yourself" to the next level and, in the moment, there is no thought of gratification, just action. That might fit the definition of altruism as a truly selfless act.

107 posted on 08/31/2014 6:27:58 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: SeekAndFind; NYer; Salvation; markomalley; tired&retired; Biggirl; TexasFreeper2009; zot; metmom; ..

I’m not into Joel Osteen’s preaching or his wife’s commentary. But this is an opening for this paper “Why Commandments?”
http://www.bswett.com/1978-05Commandments.html

It far eclipses what Mrs. Osteen said; it begins:

“Why does God give commandments to human beings? If God is omnipotent, why doesn’t He just make us do what He wants? The quick answer is, “Because He gave us free will.” But why did God give us free will? The flip-side of free will is free won’t—which means that we have the power to disobey God. That’s an awful lot of power. There are times when I think things would go a lot smoother on this pretty little blue-and-white planet if we didn’t have that power, but we do, and it’s obvious that we do.

and concludes: “Conclusion: God gives us commandments because He loves us. As Moses said in his farewell address to the children of Israel, “I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live.” (Deut. 30:15, 19) That is the central theme of God’s commandments. They are not for someone else’s benefit. They are not given to us to impose on others. They are given to each of us for our own benefit, but no one can make us obey them, not even God Himself.”

Please read the “red meat” in between these two pieces of bread I’ve posted.


108 posted on 08/31/2014 6:42:41 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: ravenwolf

being a protestant she most likely believes Paul to be the father of Christianity.


Speaking as a fmr Catholic turned Baptist I don’t know anyone who claims Paul to be the “father of Christianity.”

Are you offended when people claim Catholics are pagans for praying to beings other than Jesus? Do you pray to Mary or any other person?


109 posted on 08/31/2014 6:46:58 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: TBP
There are two ways of looking at that: one cynical and one a bit deeper. The reality is that all interest is self-interest. The difference is in the perception of self. If I believe that self ends at the end of my fingers and toes then I will be demonstrating that level of awareness in my choices and actions. But that's not the only possible perception. When contemplating statements like "What you do for another, you do for me", consider what is really being said about the Self.

On the subject of worship, is it to be imagined that God somehow needs us to worship Him? That if we fail to do so we're somehow harming Him?

110 posted on 08/31/2014 6:47:00 AM PDT by AustinBill (consequence is what makes our choices real)
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To: Cvengr
From what I've read, good works are simply good works on one hand, but are also a characteristic of someone who follows Christ and a way to recognize a Christian on the other.

A gift might fit as it implies nothing in return, otherwise it wouldn't be a gift, it would be an obligation.

Personally, I have to admit that I get something for my giving. Sometimes I give because it makes me feel good. Sometimes because I think I should. Sometimes I feel I'm paying back for the unexpected good done to me in the past. Some are more altruistic than others, but is it altruism? I get something from each.

Perhaps altruism is found in forgiving others for their trespasses against us?

As you can see, I have no answer, just more questions. Much in life seems to be like this the closer I look at it. Maybe I need glasses?

111 posted on 08/31/2014 6:51:13 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

What I am saying is the purpose of our lives is to fellowship with Him.

That is why we were made. That is my benefit. to worship Him, the Creator of all things.. I am promised an inheritance. I need not worry about me, here or now. The enemy runs this rock for now and that includes the world of religion.

Praise Yah, His Kingdom is coming where His rules and government will reign and the enemy will be gone. There will be 1000 years to grow the mustard seeds in pure Truth.

1000 years to perfect the Bride. To prepare the Bride for eternity..
We almost cant help being Rahabs here on earth.

We don’t know how much we haven’t been taught.. and its because we have teachers like Osteen.


112 posted on 08/31/2014 7:09:35 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: SeekAndFind
I am a worship leader. I LOVE worshiping my Lord and Savior. Being in the presence of Almighty God is my favorite place to be. It's where I want to live forever.

That being said it is so not about me. It is all about HIM. Worship brings Him glory. Worshiping Him is my job. There is nothing wrong with loving your job. It is a very good gig indeed, an honor and a privilege and a beautiful joy, but HE is the focus. I am blessed, but that is so not my purpose or reason for being there, just a side benefit.

113 posted on 08/31/2014 7:36:37 AM PDT by Manic_Episode (GOP = The Whig Party)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

Are you offended when people claim Catholics are pagans for praying to beings other than Jesus? Do you pray to Mary or any other person?


Are you trying to make this about me?

I don’t know anyone who claims Paul to be the “father of Christianity.”>>>>>

I do not attach any name to myself, but have been to a lot of protestant Churches and I do not agree.

But that is not the point which is if some one knows enough about scripture to preach it then they should also know when they are told not to preach.

I do not mean to criticize Victoria Osteen, she is most likely a lot better woman than I am a man, I am just saying people do leave them selves open to such when they ignore what scripture plainly teaches.

Any one can and should wonder if they ignore one part or get it wrong what else do they have wrong?


114 posted on 08/31/2014 7:44:10 AM PDT by ravenwolf (s)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

**Speaking as a fmr Catholic turned Baptist **

You are always a Catholic due to the mark of Baptism and Confirmation on your soul. God will ask you about that at the moment you die.

We welcome you back to the Catholic Church at any time. Sit down with a priest and get you questions answered.


115 posted on 08/31/2014 7:46:26 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Coming Home Network
116 posted on 08/31/2014 7:47:00 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Linda Frances

I was giving you a hard time. I agree with you.


Thanks for the hard time, I need it more than any one at times, sounds like you go to the right kind of Church.


117 posted on 08/31/2014 7:48:26 AM PDT by ravenwolf (s)
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To: ravenwolf

Are you trying to make this about me?


No. It was simply a response to your claim that protestants believe Paul to be the “father of Christianity.”

Your comment seems a lot like those made by liberals when they claim conservatives hate poor people and destroy the environment.


118 posted on 08/31/2014 8:05:38 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: ravenwolf

I do not mean to criticize Victoria Osteen


Oh...and concerning the Osteen’s, they seem a lot like Jim and Tammy Faye with slightly better handlers.


119 posted on 08/31/2014 8:07:03 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

Oh...and concerning the Osteen’s, they seem a lot like Jim and Tammy Faye with slightly better handlers.


I have never heard of them, So can not comment.


120 posted on 08/31/2014 8:20:57 AM PDT by ravenwolf (s)
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