Posted on 08/25/2014 2:16:13 AM PDT by markomalley
Msgr Pope ping
“In this little Host is the solution to all of the world’s problems.”
Saint John Paul II
“Unless I missed it, there have been no attempts by Satanists to steal and use a Methodist host, or an Episcopal one, or a Baptist one, or a Lutheran one, etc. It is a Catholic host they seek.”
Your problem is a matter of history. If I remember correctly, nearly everything Martin Luther objected to regarding the Catholic Church except priesthood marriage has since been adopted by the Catholic Church.
So in hindsight, who inspired all of the murders, tortures, and persecutions through the various inquisitions to maintain religious beliefs/power which the catholic church ultimately caved in on?
These persecutions were not authorized by Jesus Christ. There is nothing in his teachings which would have supported these type of actions for the maintenance of power that the Catholic Church once wielded.
I believe that the Catholic Church approved of the murder/martyrdom of William Tyndale for the grievous sin of publishing the Bible in English, so that the common man could read about Jesus Christ!
Don’t get me wrong, I believe that the Catholic Church is better now than it has ever been; however, we know that through scripture once a demon has been thrown out of a host, seven demons more powerful than the first will return to try to reoccupy the host.
I wouldn’t let the testimony of demons assure you of the acceptance/superiority of your gospel to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, maybe their just trying to re-establish what they once so heavily influenced.
I find Fr Pope’s personal experience fascinating. It is no coincidence that it happened in the Latin Mass.
Stationed in Al Hillah, Iraq from 2005-08 - historical Babylon...there are many cold and dark things there...even in the extreme heat...prayer returned the calm and the light...
I don’t believe in Christ - I know him to be true!
I can’t say whether any Lutheran Eucharistic hosts have even been stolen, but the Lutheran assertion of the Real Presence of Christ in the elements sets it apart from the generic Protestant belief in the bread and (usually) grape juice being symbols rather than the Presence Himself. Any demon who showed up at a Lutheran service of the altar would certainly shudder in the Presence.
Which leads to an interesting question, for which I don’t think anyone can honestly say s/he has the answer. If Christ is present in the consecrated bread and wine, would that Presence depend upon the belief of the recipient? To put it another way, is the Presence of Christ to be found in the bread and grape juice of a Baptist or AG or Word of Faith communion, even if the recipient believes s/he is only taking physical food as a memorial of Christ’s sacrifice? The Presence of Christ is under the control of Christ. OTOH, the workings of Christ require our faith to be manifest: cf. the numerous times Jesus told people that it was their faith that healed them, or in Hebrews that without faith it is impossible to please God. (Personally, I lean towards the Presence being in any believer’s communion, but I am not so arrogant as to think I can know for certain.)
I've seen this happen before at N.O. Masses as well.
And if you're familiar with Chinatown DC (particularly 15 years ago when this incident happened), you would likely recognize that location had as much to do with this as the particular rite used for the Mass. Chinatown, even now, is a little bit seedy, but 15 years ago, it was quite the adventure. Old St Mary's (where he celebrated this particular Mass) is right in the heart of Chinatown.
Maybe through the misuse of Scripture you "know" that, but the passage in context was clearly referring to demonic possession of a human being and was specifically addressed to the Pharisees.
As for the Inquisition, which Inquisition are you talking about? The Spanish Inquisition was the worst, and was largely a political abuse of the Spanish government. It was so "Catholic" that, when it ended, the government shut it down with out even bothering to consult the Church.
But even the victims of the Spanish Inquisition got trials and had an opportunity to confront their accusers and mount a defense. Would you like to talk about the victims of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, who were simply murdered by thugs working on the orders of your "prophet" without being given any sort of trial?
One more comment...if a demon were to manifest in the middle of the consecration, I would think the correct action would be to place the host upon the altar, turn towards the demon, and rebuke him in the Name and Power of Christ. It would be, I think, the equivalent of Jesus exorcising on the Sabbath: sending a demon back to hell and freeing one of God’s children takes priority over the sacrament. You can always have the Eucharist, but demons don’t always provide an opportunity to be exorcised.
Happening at the NO Mass, I question.
It's defined Catholic belief that the Presence does not depend on the faith of the recipient. The Eucharist's effect on the recipient does, however.
If Christ is present in the consecrated bread and wine, would that Presence depend upon the belief of the recipient?
No it wouldn't. The validity of a sacrament depend upon valid form and matter as well as the intent of the minister to do as Christ intends for it...they do not depend upon the belief of the recipient.
Consider 1 Cor 11:
[26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. [30] Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.
If the validity of the Sacrament depended upon the belief of the recipient, the above verses would be nonsensical, as it would not really be possible to eat or drink unworthily.
Just to make sure, are you calling me a liar?
Or are you calling me delusional?
(I am not depending upon third party accounts, this is something I've seen with my own eyes)
BUMP
Amen
I actually saw this happen at a funeral mass, of all things.
I don’t know how they caught it, but all of a sudden the altar serves etc. hustled over to a woman who was trying to slip out the side door with a eucharist.
I question it happening at a non-Catholic rite. It’s not meant to call you a liar.
bookmark
Great story and great news, mr. O’malley. Yet this Lutheran must also echo the eloquent comments of mr. Teppe.
The Lord’s Supper is the draw that keeps me going to church even when my weak flesh protests. The true body and blood of my savior is the gift served to me every week, which cannot be found elsewhere, and which demons correctly assess as their greatest threat. Our dead and risen Chist conquered all.
My favorite part of the liturgy is the Nunc Dimittus (song of Simeon) sung after communion: Lord now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to Thy Word . . . For mine eyes have seen thy salvation which Thou has prepared for all people, a light to lighten the Gentiles and the glory of Thy people Israel . . . Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost . . . As it was in the beginning is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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