Posted on 08/24/2014 10:55:16 AM PDT by wmfights
In your reading, has this been fulfilled or is it yet future?
That must be the papists and the EOs and companion, the Prots. Why not? Anything is possible with unhinged allegorical prophecy.
We are in the midst of it's fulfillment. The beginning thereof.
Returning? When did he leave?.
You really need to read part 12 of this series to get that answered. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3201520/posts?page=4
Meant to ping you to 245
I think you’ve figured it out!
Ezekiel must have known all along that those Joos and Hee-brews didn’t matter.
Nowhere does Mt. 24 is state that the sun is done and the world has been burned up to exist no more, but you are reading 2Pt. 3 into this, leaving a great wealth of texts, most of at least 30 chapters. and to allegorize away, so why not the meteorological judgments?
The day of the Lord will see the sun darkened, and the moon not give her light, and other meteorological judgments upon the earth at the end of the tribulation, which Rv. can be seen to detail, signaling the battle of Armageddon.
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; (Revelation 19:17)
Which also reveals the Lord reigning after in a purified earth for 1k years, before the final judgment of fire coming down from God out of heaven, and devouring them,
where is the “holy place” today? THE CHURCH.
Indeed, but again you seem to have an inability to see anything in parallel, so that Israel can both be Jews as a distinct people, beloved of God, which your own CCC states are the "priestly people of God," and yet be the "Israel of God," the church.
Similarly, here the Lord refers to the place His disciples knew as the holy place, and which existed as that in 70 AD long after the church began, and thus by your logic if it cannot be allowed to refer to future the temple since the church become the temple than it cannot be allowed to be referred to in MT. 24.
the devil was bound at the cross. Jesus said you can’t plunder a man’s house unless you bind the strong man. The Church has been plundering Satan’s kingdom for 2,000 years
Please! This is bordering on the absurd. The Lord was referring to casting out devils in the light of the devil obviously not being bound, and which exorcism some Jews did so as well, (Mt. 12:25-27) and which the Lord prophesied His disciples would after the cross. Thus by your logic the devil was either bound before the cross, or not afterwards.
it is obvious Satan has been loosed for a bit here So now part of Revelation 20 is obviously literal in the light of current events, yet killing and atrocities were just as brutal and iniquity just as prevalent in certain times past, but lacked the modern technology and population density and news reporting of the 20th c. The devil comes to steal, kill and destroy, which has been abundant in every century for over 2,000 years, but just think how many more would have died if they all had modern weapons!
In just Europe i read that over 105,000 people (5.3% death rate) died in just the Wars of the Roses in the 15th century out of a total population of about 2 million, and 190,000 people out of a total population of about 5 million died in just the First English Civil War in the 17th century.
And then you have the the Black Death in the 14th century which claimed an estimated 75 million lives, killed some 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia, in some places 75–80% of the population.
More deaths came by natural disasters, with 830,000 dying in the 1556 Shaanxi earthquake and 900,000–2,000,000 in the 1887 Yellow River (Huang He) flood, and Job 1 attributes a great wind to the devil, showing he could engage in such (by permission).
Meanwhile some studies indicate the world is becoming less violent (Chicago excepted), though i think that is premature.
Thus the idea that the devil has been chained in a bottomless pit is absurd, and is just what he would have you believe. He has always been on a leash, but not bound as in Rv. 20 .
there will be no physical battle of Armageddon. the war is spiritual as shown in Ephesians 6:12.
That requires such a spirtualizing of the description of the details of this Armageddon that you are more like a follower of Mary Baker Eddy.
the Scriptures are quite clear, Jesus is reigning NOW from Jerusalem
Oh come on, enough of this bombast. The Scriptures are anything but quite clear that Jesus is reigning NOW from the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven. Instead it speaks of a future one. (Rv. 3:12)
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Revelation 21:2)
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (Revelation 21:10)
please define “Israel” for me that way I can’t be accused of misrepresenting it
Certainly. Rather than Israel only referring to the church, the Israel of God, it also refers to unconverted Jews collectively both before the church and after Pentecost, and which are promised a future collective repentance.
"For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?" Rom 11:15.The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles", Rom 11:12, 25; cf. Lk 21:24. will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all". Eph 4:13; 1 Cor 15:28.
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. (Matthew 8:10)
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:6)
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:28)
And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. (Luke 1:16)
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22)
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, (Acts 4:8)
Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. (Acts 13:16)
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Romans 10:1)
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:7)
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Romans 11:25-26)
for example, were the Jews Jesus addressed in John 8 in Israel?
You do not read Scripture? This has been already answered, but it seems you just can't get the straw man you began with out of your head, that imagines we must hold that Jews, the"natural branches," "Israel after the flesh," are saved without believing, so that the future repentance means dead Jews are saved.
the Jew born in Ukraine in 1935 and emigrated to Israel in 1948 , are they “Israel”? was Joan Rivers “Israel”?
Likewise the answer is obvious. They are not Israel, but lost Israelites:
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; (Romans 9:4)
Matthew 15:24
>> "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
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Matthew 15:24
>> "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
.
And then He sent Paul to the Gentiles.
The gentiles to whom Paul preached were Hebrews of the dispersion.
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The gentiles to whom Paul preached were Hebrews of the dispersion.
They were the “other sheep” that Yeshua came for.
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Only in the perverted teaching of one Michael Rood and his followers.
In the Gospel of Matthew, as I posted, and also in Peter’s epistles, as he plainly stated, calling them the people who were “not a people” of prophecy.
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>> “Only in the perverted teaching of one Michael Rood and his followers” <<
.
As far as I know, Michael Rood has never taught, nor spoken on this subject.
If you know differently, please post a link.
A companion passage to your Ezekiel reference in Zechariah 14.
Zechariah is dated post Babylon exile in the reign of Darius:
Zechariah 14:
Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.[a]
6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”[b]
And His name one.
10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem[c] shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.
11 The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
13 It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the Lord will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;
14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.
Such also shall be the plague
On the horse and the mule,
On the camel and the donkey,
And on all the cattle that will be in those camps.
So shall this plague be.
The Nations Worship the King
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts.[d] Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
Eze 36:38 As the holy flock,
_That ain’t ‘New Jerusalem’, pal
the question - is the “holy flock” national Israel as claimed in this post?
not according to Jesus in John 10:16
“and I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them in also, and they will heed my voice. SO THERE WILL BE ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD”.”
Jesus says what will determine if someone is in the one, holy flock is not Hebrew DNA, but rather do they heed His voice.
those “dwelling in the cities” in the country called Israel, are they heeding the voice of Jesus? have they been cleansed of their iniquities?
the answer is obvious.
and yes, when we heed the voice of the one shepherd, we are cleansed of our iniquities and become residents of the New Jerusalem, the true holy and beloved city.
1. “nowhere does Mt 24 state the sun is done”
absolutely it does, “the sun will be darkened” means it no longer will give light. we know this because the moon will not give light and the moon depends on the sun to “give light”. further Revelation 21:23 says there is no need for the sun after the world ends. also Mt 24-25 is the same day right up to the final judgement and NO WHERE does it state the sun resumes giving its light. I invite you to show me where if I am missing it.
Revelation 19:17 is prior to the day of the Lord.
2. the temple of God. ever since Jesus dies and the curtain was torn in two (Matthew 27:50-51 ), the Jewish temple no longer had any religious meaning. the temple God is concerned with and where the Holy Spirit resides, is the believer. so any so called 3rd or 4th temple anywhere in the world built by unbelievers can’t be the temple of God.
further you will notice Mt 24:15 is after Jesus describes the falling away, false prophets arising and the gospel of the kingdom being preached to the whole world. this means it can’t be the destruction of the temple in 70ad, but must refer to the destruction ( almost ) of the Church right before the end of the world.
3. “absurd” - insult all you want, the devil was bound at the cross. what a miracle of God as twelve men and their followers went all through the known world and were able to plunder the strong mans house. and for 2,000 years the Church carried on that mission. then about 50 years ago or so, the world seemed to go off the deep end.......I wonder what happened?
4. spiritualizing and Mary Baker Eddy - funny. imagine “spritualizing” the Word of God?
John 4:24 “ God is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth”
God set up his revealed Word in the OT using types and shadows of physical and literal events to communicate spiritual and eternal truths. the Jews in Jesus time could not understand this and unfortunately the dispensationalist in our day make the same mistake.
5. Jesus reigning from Jerusalem -
Ephesians 2:6 “ and raised us up with him and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus “
the believers citizenship is in the new Jerusalem with our King and every time we submit our will to His, He reigns.
to those outside of Christ, this is foolishness I know.
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