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A Word About Orthodox Apologetics
Orthodox Christian Network ^ | Fr. Brendan Pelphrey

Posted on 07/25/2014 10:45:39 AM PDT by don-o

Today in America, many Protestant theologians and missionaries continue to believe that Christian apologetics should rely upon the use of sound reason or logic. A Protestant Christian radio program about apologetics even took the name, “Sound Reason.” But Orthodox apologetics is not based upon reason, because Christian faith is actually unreasonable.

Christianity is faith in Jesus Christ—or, to be more accurate, being faithful to Christ. Jesus of Nazareth, called the “Christ” or Messiah, manifested Himself as the eternal God in the flesh, the salvation of all humanity through His incarnation, death and resurrection. None of this is “reasonable.” None of it can be proven through logic. In the end, faith is (in the words of St. Paul to the Hebrews) the assurance of things which are hidden from us. They do not make sense to a reasoning world.

We can say that all the historic Christian heresies (teachings which are not the true Apostolic faith) have been attempts to make Christianity “reasonable.” For example, the heresy of Arius was to say that, reasonably, Christ could not be both God and man at the same time. The heresy of Apollinarius was to say that reasonably, Christ could not be divine if He had a human mind and will. The heresy of Sabellius was to say that reasonably, the Holy Trinity could not be three divine Persons who are nevertheless perfectly One. Today, modern heresies which persist into the 21st century are their own attempts to make Christian faith “reasonable.”

(Excerpt) Read more at myocn.net ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Orthodox Christian
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To: Alex Murphy; don-o
I'm a Berean Reformed Evangelical Catholic, in the Orthodox sense.

Papa Pia e Mama Mia.

Or I guess that's "Pio" I haven't read the article yet, b'lieve I will before I respond again.

21 posted on 07/25/2014 12:42:37 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Fides et Ratio.)
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To: don-o
>> For clarity’s sake, Orthodox would say that Roman Catholics were the first Protestants.<<

Yeah, I admit I need to do more study on the beliefs of the Orthodox. I have to admit that my perception of you and your wife is that you were Catholic. My bad. I'll pay more attention from now on.

22 posted on 07/25/2014 1:00:24 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: don-o

“But Orthodox apologetics is not based upon reason, because Christian faith is actually unreasonable.”

The truth is unreasonable???


23 posted on 07/25/2014 1:29:58 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: CynicalBear

“Yeah, I admit I need to do more study on the beliefs of the Orthodox.”

Not just the Orthodox, but the orthodox.


24 posted on 07/25/2014 1:32:29 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

I’ve studied the orthodox of this world such as Catholics and found them woefully in error.


25 posted on 07/25/2014 1:57:32 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear
I’ve studied the orthodox of this world such as Catholics and found them woefully in error.

Since they're not Orthodox, can we say that Catholics are UnOrthodox?

26 posted on 07/25/2014 2:04:21 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: CynicalBear

“I’ve studied the orthodox of this world such as Catholics and found them woefully in error.”

Having seen your posts, I can’t take that comment seriously in the least.


27 posted on 07/25/2014 4:27:03 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998; don-o
He plays fast-and-loose with the words "reasonable" and "unreasonable". He needs to decide what "reasonable" means and doesn't mean. Here are three possibilities:

  1. Something plausible and easy to understand is "reasonable"
  2. Something provable by reason is "reasonable"
  3. Something consistent with reason -- e.g., not self-contradictory -- is "reasonable"
I would suggest that Christianity is always reasonable in the third sense, but not always in the first two senses.

Not every postulate of the Christian faith can be proven from reason and objective evidence -- that's why we need, and needed, divine revelation. But the objections to Christian faith can be generally disproven by reason, meaning that Christian faith is at least consistent with reason.

28 posted on 07/25/2014 6:50:00 PM PDT by Campion
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To: don-o

I agree that God’s love toward us is undeserved, and from a purely human standpoint, completely beyond our comprehension. It is “agape” love, “divine love”. In that sense, God’s love is not “reasonable”, if by that one means that it is unfathomable to us as fallen, sinful human beings.

And, I know the good Friar is using the word “unreasonable” in that sense. However, there are some who might take this to mean that God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Christian faith is “irrational”, or “insane” (in the literal sense), or even, “nonsense”. But that is not the case.

We are created in God’s image - His fingerprints are found in His universe, and even in fallen humanity - that is, we recognize and uphold courage, self-sacrifice, honesty, love, generosity, etc. God is very logical in accordance with His divine nature - His created universe abides by physical laws that make science possible. We are able to reason, to explore, to understand (to a point). God told us to fill the earth and “subdue” it, that is “harness it”, “be stewards of it”, and “understand” it.

We have that ability because it is God-given.

It is true that we cannot “argue” someone into God’s Kingdom. Only His Holy Spirit convicts and draws us to Him. However, we are called and exhorted to “sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.”

I think Fr. Pelphrey is confusing the words, “reasonable” or “unreasonable” with “unfathomable” or “inscrutable”, which mean, “incapable of being fully understood or explored”. When he says that Christianity is not reasonable, some may take him to mean that our faith is “irrational” or “insane”, when what he really means is that we cannot ever fully fathom, measure, or “plumb” the fullness, the depth of God, His mercy, His love, His judgement, His majesty, and on and on.

God says in Isaiah 1:18, ““Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.” We can rationally make the decision to follow Christ, though His sacrifice for us is beyond comprehension. Jesus was rational to His listeners when He used stories and parables to communicate God’s truth. If His preaching and parables were “unreasonable”, or irrational, or incomprehensible, then He wouldn’t have had anyone listen to Him at all. Yes, there were those who left Him when He presented them with some tough choices - they didn’t understand who He was and what He came to do - but, no one took Him to be insane, absent of His reason.


29 posted on 07/25/2014 8:01:13 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Campion

Extremely well said


30 posted on 07/26/2014 8:47:09 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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