Posted on 06/08/2014 8:26:19 PM PDT by Phinneous
Sorry— don’t know what happened to my paragraphs there. I guess that makes it even more of a rant...
Yeah, I made a mistake with one of the thirteen principles, does that mean twelve is the correct number after all ? :)
Thank you for the video.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachSome of his earlier videos he conflated
Roman Catholicism with followers of Yah'shua.I disagree with him on one point,
Yah'shua rebuked the Pharisees when their
Oral Traditions impugned the Torah.Yah'shua carefully distinguished by saying
"It is written" when it was from the Torah.
He also said "It is said" when it was Oral Tradition.
Very Nice(an) to know. Thanks :)
(I made a pun....)
(I made a pun….)
It is very clear that the wheels came off the cart there.
baruch HaShem
For clarity, like I advised Greetings_Puny_Humans, see the let’s get along thread between Catholics and Protestants:
500 seething comments strong! Did they even let Jews for Jesus in on the fighting?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3165205/posts
There seem to be disagreements on the cart vis-a-vis the wheels...
I notice that instead of responding to my post like you claimed you would, you've decided to go the pure annoying route. So, how are relations between Orthodox Jews, Reformed, Kariates and so forth?
Instead of stirring the pot, you should listen to Jewbacca and quite being as obnoxious as possible.
So where would you like to go back to? The Rabbis? The stories of demons in the bathroom?
By the way, ever hear the expression “2 Jews, 3 opinions?” Jewbacca has another rabbi/counsel and that’s his way. (those Jews from Kashyyyk...)
I want to point out that you groan about haughtiness and other issues with the approach of my posts, yet you wrote in your first reply “stupid oral traditions.” Very considerate/gentlemanly of you... (Of course I think the same thing about your religion and its dogmas or, “YOPIOS”)
Hey, can we both be happy Cantor lost? Holy Jewish soul (in my opinion) but crappy RINO.
Anyway, relations between orthodox and reform are fine. Thanks for asking! The not-yet-religious do, Heaven help us, tend to marry out and forfeit their inheritance, but more and more are becoming religious, thank G-d. They don’t tend to argue doctrine with their coreligionists like Catholic and Protestant do.
I thought of something— Imagine if I told a Buddhist that there is a new Buddah in town and they are all wrong. I had a few witnesses of the new Buddah’s miracles (pardon me, but quite few witnesses, relative to the Jews’ claims...in your ‘OT’ of millions of witnesses...and witnesses to G-d Himself at that, not just a, pardon me again, run-of-the-mill resurrection— Elishah and the child??) AND I make similar (to the Christians’ to the Jews) claims that their old Buddah is superseded... Presto!.....Christianity in the eyes of a Jew. Enough... Christians, Karites, Saducees, and the rest have their own religion which has nothing at all to do with Judaism and our rabbinic tradition. Go ask your Karite friends (or peruse their websites again) how they observe the life-and-death laws of the Sabbath that G-d commands in Torah. But of course they have their YOPIOS too, not acknowledging that G-d gave an Oral Torah too with every detail we need to keep His laws.
In closing (as if :) ) and returning briefly to your insulting questions of the Talmud and Zohar— much is analogy or metaphor, some concepts (like demonology, impurity) we hold to be bygone powers that have mostly faded— but which will come back as applicable to the 3rd Holy Temple, may it be rebuilt speedily. Do you reject any spiritual power in our created world that is granted authority to operate in G-d’s world— to tempt or to entice a person away from G-d? Don’t you battle against a Satan? I know you’re not at the Catholic level, but you are in the world’s minority if in your YOPIOS and scripture-only viewpoint there is no spiritual force in our world. The stories you mock are the Jewish take on the subject. (I know your answer, don’t bother— lop it all together with Catholic saint-worship... it’s not in scripture.)
Or should we go back to the Hebrew Torah and ask, in your opinion and translations, does Lev 3:17 mean we should not eat fat or not eat milk? The word is exactly the same in Hebrew. What did G-d mean in His written Bible? If you say “fat” like all of the Christian commentary, then you are relying on the Oral interpretation given to the Jews.
Hey, maybe Cantor can spend more time studying the Bible now?
How about you read my post and respond to it? All of it? Why do I need to pick certain things? If you give me the excuse that you are too tired and will get back to me later, then fulfill your promise at least. Don't play dumb about it.
I want to point out that you groan about haughtiness and other issues with the approach of my posts, yet you wrote in your first reply “stupid oral traditions.” Very considerate/gentlemanly of you.
That was my response to some absurd Talmudic Rabbi thinking he can "cross examine" Christianity and prove Christ never claimed to be God or anybody special. Let the Rabbi take the plank out of his own eye before he bothers us. Not only are the traditions stupid, I would even characterize them as vile. Here, for example, a Rabbi lies to a Jewish woman to settle a dispute on what kind of degenerate a boy is:
"The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a bastard. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived during a woman's menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a bastard and a son of a niddah.
"They said, 'What induced you to contradict the opinion of your colleagues?' He replied, "I will prove it concerning him." He went to the lad's mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans. "He said to her, 'My daughter, if you will answer the question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.'. She said to him, 'Swear it to me.'
Rabbi Akiba, taking the oath with his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, 'What is the status of your son?' She replied, 'When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah (menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had intercourse with me and this son was born to me.' Consequently the child was both a bastard and the son of a niddah."(Babylonian Talmud, Kallah 51a)
This junk has none of the majesty of the Old and New Testaments, which any one familiar with them knows.
(Of course I think the same thing about your religion and its dogmas or, “YOPIOS”)
Hence my contempt for your oral traditions. I am well aware of Orthodox arrogance and foolish desire to equate Demons of Epilepsy with, say, the doctrine of salvation by grace alone. The latter is actually in the scripture too, founded in the Old Testament itself, though you vainly think you will ever get anywhere by how you urinate.
Anyway, relations between orthodox and reform are fine. Thanks for asking!
Do the Orthodox consider Reformed, Karaites, and other non-Orthodox Jews to actually be "real Jews"? Let's try this approach. You might as well say "relations between Catholics and Protestants are fine!", since that is how you were trolling me with your irrelevant posts.
The not-yet-religious do, Heaven help us, tend to marry out and forfeit their inheritance, but more and more are becoming religious, thank G-d.
There is no inheritance to lose. If one believes the Jews, the eternal covenant with David to always have a man for him upon the throne, and a Priest for the Levites, was broken by God for over 2,000 years. In which case, God is a liar, and the Jews are abandoned. If one believes the Christians, there is neither any Jews nor Gentiles anymore, but one in Christ. Intermarriage does not rob anyone of their "inheritance" in this case. They are safe either way regardless of who they decide to marry.
They don’t tend to argue doctrine with their coreligionists like Catholic and Protestant do.
So you say after mentioning the great sin of a Jew marrying an accursed Goy. That they don't fight is a total falsehood, as anyone familiar with the Orthodox knows.
"Perlow’s speech, the evening’s most fiery, condemned non-Orthodox streams of Judaism and used particularly harsh language to condemn Open Orthodoxy, the movement led by Rabbi Avi Weiss and centered at Yeshiva Chovevei Torah in Riverdale that pushes for a greater role for women in Jewish ritual, among other things. Perlow criticized the Israeli Chief Rabbinate for not being harsh enough in their treatment of Open Orthodoxy. Perlow said that the threat posed by the Conservative and Reform movements had largely passed. “They’ve become oblivious, and they’ve fallen into the pit of intermarriage and assimilation,” he said. “They have no future, they almost have no present.”"
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/199010/orthodox-rabbi-stuns-agudath-gala-with-heresy-atta/?p=all#ixzz34INOsJzZ
I thought of something— Imagine if I told a Buddhist that there is a new Buddah in town and they are all wrong.
The chip is on your shoulder. Look who posted this thread? Go to your Orthodox forum and rant and rave all you like there. I won't venture therein.
Karites, Saducees, and the rest have their own religion which has nothing at all to do with Judaism and our rabbinic tradition.
IOW, even though the Karites follow the Torah, because they reject the trashy and absurd oral traditions, they are not real "Jews." Hence, there is no conflict between Jews, because all real Jews are Orthodox, just like all real Scotsman hate the British.
And before you whine about this, remember you spammed me 3 times now, I think, trying to annoy me with Catholics and Protestants fighting, as if you are all so undivided and peaceful! And none of this ever had anything to do with the thread or your original posts to me. So why bring it up? To hide from the evidence of Christ's self-proclaimed divinity. Keep to one thing at a time. This is advice to keep you from digging yourself into a bigger hole.
some concepts (like demonology, impurity) we hold to be bygone powers that have mostly faded— but which will come back as applicable to the 3rd Holy Temple,
Where does it say in your Talmud that having sex too soon after peeing no longer gives your kids Epilipsy? Considering the whole thing was constructed a long time after the Romans torched the Temple, it does not appear that Jews stopped believing in it until modern science showed their Rabbis to be superstitious, and yet we must regard your Talmud as having more authority than the scripture itself!
I know you’re not at the Catholic level, but you are in the world’s minority if in your YOPIOS and scripture-only viewpoint there is no spiritual force in our world.
Do a study of all those people who had sex too soon after using the bathroom, showing that all their kids have epilepsy. In that event, I will believe you that there are Demons waiting around counting the seconds to see if you slip up, and then I will even start to throw salt over my shoulder, and knock on wood and the like, and step on all the cracks, and burning witches in my spare time for turning me into Newt Gingrich, and righting all the photographs so planes and helicopters do not drop out of the sky.
Or should we go back to the Hebrew Torah and ask, in your opinion and translations, does Lev 3:17 mean we should not eat fat or not eat milk? The word is exactly the same in Hebrew.
The word is always exactly the same, not just in Lev 3:17, and the words "fat" and "milk" are often understood by the Hebrews to be one in the same. Therefore, we must rely on the context, which in this case is the butchering of an animal, and removing the fat from the meat.
Lev 3:15 And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away.
None of my commentaries site the Rabbins, nor do any of the Lexicons. And why should they? It is obvious. The Rabbins must write their commentaries for idiots. "Believe me," says the Rabbins, "though you are too stupid to read, this word here, by an unbroken (but broken) chain of tradition, assures me that this impossibly complex word means "fat" and not "milk"."
Ping for your intrest! !
Ein breira
Whatever the merits of this particular critique (and I'm sure it's quite good), I must state that I don't have a very high opinion of "Jews for Judaism." It is a "multi-denominational" organization that includes Orthodox, "Conservative," Reform, and Reconstructionist and thus is not really "for Judaism" at all (since only "Orthodoxy" is Judaism proper). Since it can't defend the Divine origin of the Torah (which would offend its non-Orthodox members) all that holds it together is its opposition to chrstianity. This gives fuel to the chrstian stereotype that the only thing that holds Jews together is their opposition to chrstianity, and that beyond that everything is kosher.
I have recently come to see that the whole chrstianity-vs.-liberal-antichrstianity is one big worldview (with the antagonists simply taking opposing sides). It is not merely liberalism that is the problem, nor chrstianity. The entire "yin/yang" system of the chrstian/liberal struggle must be abandoned if we are to return to true Theocracy (something which both chrstians and their opponents have an abject horror of).
Butting in here, but thought I’d throw this in concerning Phinneous’ repudiation of Christianity for it being so disjointed, i.e., the differences Protestants have with Catholics (he cites the Catholic vs Protestant threads on FR). This in contrast to what he calls the “binary, equal, godly soul” of Judaism.
Rabbi Marvin S. Antelman, who wrote the classic “To Eliminate the Opiate” (written 1974), would view Phinneous’ notion of Judaism very naïve and uninformed. I’ve had Antleman’s book since the 80’s, it is available now on the internet.
Antelman wrote his book against, what he calls the “JINO’s” (Jews in name only), and “phony Judaisms:” Reform, Conservative, and Karaite. He himself, of course, is none of this, he holds to the only “true” Judaism, which, he says, is Talmudic and Kabbalist Orthodox, apparently the Lubavitch variety.
Sounds like Judaism is as disjointed as Christianity is. Nothing like Phinneous’ unified “binary soul.”
I don’t know about ceremony but knowing the new moons, sabbaths and feasts given to the Jews were shadows and actually marked specific events in the Messiah’s life-
When you can see that in scripture? Wow, that certainly made ‘sunsday’ or ‘saturnsday’ and december 25 and easter on the pope’s calendar ceremonies meaningless..
Kind of like the pope’s calendar kind of skips or ignores some of the Word that became flesh parts...
Jews even have screwed up the calendar they were given by our Heavenly Father and use the pope as their guide so much more than Torah..
Kind of explains their suspension and postponement rules...
Jews, Muslims and Christians ( heck even satanists and secular humanist) all worship one thing.. the pope’s calendar...and each use it as their worship guide..
Maybe that is the great deception? Time will tell....
That really is a cheap shot and untrue to say that “the pope’s calendar is worshiped.” God is omnipresent and omnipotent. God does not stand on ceremony. Men do.
The greco Roman Latin church pope Gregory Calendar is the standard for the political, business and economic powers in the world today..
That isn’t a cheap shot..that is a fact...and just because the world runs on it, doesn’t mean it’s bad...
unless it is contrary to what we can find in Scripture..and looking right in the first book of Moses, we see the sun, moon and stars were created for signs, seasons, days and years..
The Greco roman Latin church pope calendar uses just the sun to tell time..
Kind of hard to tell what time it is with one hand on a clock.
That is consistent with the ancient sun worshippers too and maybe why ‘sun’s day’ is a big deal for some..
But the world can enjoy their Thor’s Day today...at least most of the world will work today as it is a work day on His calendar too..
Today on Our Heavenly Father’s calendar, it is the 14th day of His second month.- the 6th day of His work week... a day before His seventh day Sabbath...
Pretty sure most the world have tomorrow as a ‘work day’on His Sabbath.thanks t the pope’s calendar...
It doesn’t require a smart phone or a wall calendar to know this... Just an open mind and heart, scripture, maybe a concordance and the greatest wall calendar one can have - His sky...
When I found His calendar in Scripture and did just a little wikipedia reading about the Gregorian calendar- its names for the days and months and what gods, goddesses and creations that get their special days or month- it is easy to say that the Gregorian is a counterfeit ....
And we know who the great counterfeiter is...
The world’s collective minds and hands and what are work days, sabbaths, holy days for then world begins with the pope calendar.. The premise begins with the foundation of the pope gregory calendar, not Scripture..
You my use a different word, but to me, that is worship...
All of Christendom is based on that foundation.
Funny how the early reformers believed the papacy was the Antichrist, but,
If we accept their premises of the papacy as antichrist-
How comfortable would they be using the antichrist’s calendar?
The antichrist s sabbath?
The antichrist’s holy days ( December 25 and easter specifically)
I have been blessed to not accept the world’s premise anymore on what day or month it is... it changes ones life...
And it certainly has been easier to see the world just as the god of this world wants it to be- a counterfeit.
And I can certainly see how Satan can deceive the whole world like revelation says ... and even how the very elect can be duped...
Maybe even to the point that the very elect will defend the world’s systems because that is all they ever learned or are most comfortable with...but contrary to the command we get to come out of her...
May He bless your journey out of Babylon more the He has mine..
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