Posted on 05/26/2014 3:23:25 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
Controversial, yes, but true. Otherwise, we don’t believe in Church dogma or the reality of the sin of heresy.
Michael Voris makes some good points in this video. To the line “we don’t talk about religion and politics here,” he has added a third forbidden subject, sex. Regarding the older form of that yarn, Brother Francis once made an innocently humorous response to someone while he was out doing our work on the streets. A man said to him, “There are two things, we don’t talk about here!”
To which Brother responded, with a slightly feigned naïveté, “Really? What are those?”
“Religion and Politics!” responded the man.
And Brother said, “What’s wrong with politics?”
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicism.org ...
Quite the strategy of the enemy.
Make specious claims and then demand that anyone who objects disprove what you failed to prove, but which is only an opinion.
Then anything goes.
But Rome calls things that are not as if they were, and therefore they are.
The liturgical changes after Vatican II almost led me out of the Church to our close cousin denomination, the Russian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox. Catholic friends persuaded me to wait a year and subscribe to the Wanderer weekly newspaper and then decide. They were right (as I see it). I remained Catholic, wearied spiritually by the cultural destruction in the Church and in civilization wrought by the liberal regimes of John XXIII and Paul VI. I consider that my staying Catholic was then rewarded by the election of John Paul I (canonizing him would be a great idea) and the election of St. John Paul II, a brilliant pontiff.
You and I sharply differ on numerous points of theology. I am not changing my mind or my commitments. I will die a Roman Catholic and a sinner when my time comes. I have every confidence that you have likewise found a home that is likely a permanent commitment for you. That is an important reason why I do not invite or generally engage in religious controversies here other than on those occasions when the actual doctrines of Roman Catholicism are being distorted or attacked by people who are claiming Catholicism falsely (SSPX types or folks who wrongly claim Catholicism) or otherwise being ignorant of the Faith or are lying about it intentionally).
I have never doubted that there are tremendous numbers of good and holy people whose souls have been saved for heaven but have never been Catholic or that many Catholics die and go straight to hell for mortal unrepented sins.
It may seem that I take born-again Christianity less than seriously. I do not doubt the sincerity or even holiness of those who profess Jesus Christ as their Savior at the time that that commitment was made. I do not believe, however, that an 18-year old, burning with honest faith and knowledgeable of his or her commitment to Jesus Christ, will thereafter be immune from human nature and our common tendency to sin so that the person falls into serious sin thereafter. It is all too easy to say that sins committed forty years later prove the commitment to Christ to be a false one. You may disagree with that insight but neither of us is likely to change his/her mind. We probably agree on 90-95% of Christianity. I would rather concentrate with on that than on the disagreements.
In the pro-life cause (inaccurately called Operation Rescue) in my previous state, as a trial attorney, I represented without fee 1100 people arrested for generally serious felony charges like burglary for entering abortion mills, de-sterilizing the instruments, pouring raw eggs into the suction machines and generally putting a targeted mill out of action for several weeks. Many were Catholics but many others were various denominations or none but born again Christians willing to be jailed and physically punished to save the lives of unborn babies. Of 1100 determined and beautifully stubborn Christians who refused to plead guilty, refused to be photographed or fingerprinted in many cases, refused to cooperate with jailers, cops or judges, about 30 were convicted of anything and generally those convicted were convicted of the legal equivalent of a parking ticket (and refused to pay).
For me, it was a pleasure to represent such extraordinary people (including Father Norman Weslin who later was arrested for protesting Obozo's invitation to speak and receive an honorary degree at Notre Shame). Each was represented individually, according to his or her own moral and theological convictions and I saw to it that each was allowed to tell judge or jury their reasons for their actions in their own terms, often specific Biblical passages.
As I respected them, I respect you but I disagree with you on matters of doctrinal nature nonetheless. I wish you the best in all matters political and many matters theological but not those where you differ with Catholicism.
In any event, may God bless you and yours and all of the very good things you do! Your Catholic brother in Christ.
There is a world of difference between struggling with and occasionally falling into sin, and living an unchanged, unrepentant lifestyle of sin. When someone is born of the Spirit of God, they WILL change. It cannot be helped because the person is given a new nature, the nature of Christ.
So you can be saved, still sin, and still go to heaven even if you sin.
My own brother stood up and *prayed* a prayer to *accept* Jesus while at an Amway meeting. There was absolutely ZERO change in his life. That was about 30 years ago and to this day, he has never given the slightest indication of having actually been saved.
When I asked him about doing it, he told me that *Oh, that was just something you did as being part of Amway*.
So, yes, making a profession is meaningless. Talk is cheap. And lots of people want fire insurance and are mistakenly led to believe that if they pray a prayer, they are good to go.
I will die a Roman Catholic and a sinner when my time comes.
You have no idea how it breaks my heart to hear someone admit that. You don't have to die in a state of sin. Jesus became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God. He took all our sin so that He could give us all His righteousness.
I am not Reformed. I resist labels like oil resists water. Hate em.
But my appeal to you is to forget the denominational stuff and simply ask God to reveal to you Himself, the life you can have in Jesus through faith in Him. Just ask Him to forgive you and give you that gift of eternal life.
It's obvious that you have a heart for God and are burdened over your sin. Ask Him to remove them through His forgiveness.
Then you can die knowing for sure you are a child of the living God who sometimes struggles with sin, but whom the Father loves and will never cast out.
There is an Evangelical pastor I know who used to live here in CNY who was one of those who went to jail for a month for contempt of court because he would not agree to the judges instructions to avoid the abortion clinic. He said it was the best thing that ever happened to him spiritually.
Thank you for all that wonderful work for saving the life of the unborn.
What an encouragement your account is.
God bless you richly for that.
I thought Christianity promised eternal life to those in a state of grace - don’t you agree?
Your Calvary Chapel brother in Christ.
God promises eternal life to those who put their faith in Jesus.
Christianity can make no promises because it's not an entity but a belief system and belief systems are not sentitient beings.
Enough semantics - we both agree that even after bodily death a Christian May be alive with Christ in Heaven. Why not ask them to pray to Jesus for us? They certainly would seem to be holier than those on earth.
God answers the prayers of His children not based on their merit but on their standing with Him as His children.
James 5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth.
And the prayer must be prayed in faith. Of course, if one doesn't believe that God will hear his own prayers but hears the prayers of others instead, that person is not praying in faith, so of course shouldn't expect answers from God.
Basically, at its root, praying to departed saints is displaying a lack of faith in God, that He will answer the prayers of the individual himself. Even your statement itself, that God will listen to those WE consider more holy than us, tells that you don't think God is going to answer your prayers.
So, I can see how if someone doesn't think that God will answer them Himself, that they'd think going through other people that God WILL listen would be more effective.
So why do you think God isn't going to hear you and answer your prayers?
Or conversely, if you think that God is going to hear and answer your prayer Himself, why pray to anyone else? What's the need for that?
You'll have to define 'state of grace' for me.
Yup; but what we DISagree on is WHEN they are going to be alive...
Seems as though I recall something about believers being in their graves until Jesus' final return.
But, that may not really be the case; according to one church's teachings...
St Paul advocates intercessory prayer. Intercessory prayer is also in the Book of Revelation. If Jesus didn’t want us to use intercessory prayer then he would have made sure the bible omitted any usage of it. I do it because His Word tells me it is good.
Perhaps one of the reasons that God wants us to pray to the Saints is because they provide inspirational examples of what it means to dedicate one’s life to Christ.
State of Grace means not having committed any mortal sin that hasn’t been forgiven by God prior to bodily death.
To be absent from the body, is to be present with The Lord. 2 Cor 5:8, if that helps. My opinion is, immediately after death, we will be in a face to face relationship with Christ, forever.
Interceding for someone is not the same as praying to someone besides God.
Could you provide some Scripture to show that God wants us to pray to anyone besides Himself?
NOW you need to define MORTAL sin for me.
Not quite ...
2 Corinthians 5:8
(ASV) we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
(CJB) We are confident, then, and would much prefer to leave our home in the body and come to our home with the Lord.
(DARBY) we are confident, I say, and pleased rather to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
(ESV) Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
(KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
(NASB) we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
(NIV) We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
(NKJV) We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
(RSV) We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Leaving out man's PREFERENCE when 'quoting' this verse leaves a vastly different impression in the minds of people.
Nothing indicates that a person WILL be with the Lord immediately after death. (This 'teaching' leads to problems with the WTJ)
This begins in childhood when the kid is told that little Fluffy is now 'with Jesus' when her cat is flattened by a car,
or that Gramma is 'with Jesus' when she died.
Nothing indicates that a person WILL be with the Lord immediately after death. (This 'teaching' leads to problems with the WTJ)
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