Posted on 05/14/2014 10:02:57 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
The original writings from the Apostles themselves (the autographs) no longer exist.
This is due partly to the perishable material (papyrus) used by the writers, and partly the fact that the Roman emperors decreed the destruction of the sacred books of the Christians (Edict of Diocletian, A.D. 303).
Before translating the Bible into Latin, St. Jerome already translated into more common languages enough books to fill a library. (Saint Jerome, Maisie Ward, Sheed & Ward; A Companion to Scripture Studies, Steinmuller.)
In the year 383, he revised the Latin New Testament text in accordance with some Greek manuscripts. Between the years 390 and 406 he translated the Old Testament directly from the Hebrew, and this completed work is known today as the "Old Latin Vulgate". The work had been requested by Pope Damasus, and Copies of St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate appeared uncorrupted as late as the 11th century, with some revisions by St. Peter Damian and Lanfranc. (Catholic Encyclopedia, "Place of the Bible in the Church", C.U.A.)
Pope Benedict XV wrote about St. Jerome's translation in his 1920 encyclical, Spiritus Paraclitus, "Nor was Jerome content merely to gather up this or that teacher's words; he gathered from all quarters whatever might prove of use to him in this task. From the outset he had accumulated the best possible copies of the Bible and the best commentators on it," . . . "he corrected the Latin version of the Old Testament by the Greek; he translated afresh nearly all the books of the Old Testament from Hebrew into Latin; . . . he discussed Biblical questions with the brethren who came to him, and answered letters on Biblical questions which poured in upon him from all sides; besides all this, he was constantly refuting men who assailed Catholic doctrine and unity."
(Excerpt) Read more at cathtruth.com ...
Paul? See 51 Biblical Proofs Of A Pauline Papacy
That's just it...I don't, I just deny your elitist segment is the whole of it.
The Catholic Church was FOUNDED BY CHRIST. End of discussion.
Who do you think you are? My Dad??? The "discussion" isn't ended until I decide I'm done. You can end your part in it anytime you want, but your saying something is a fact doesn't make it so. The "church" Jesus founded is that which consists of ALL born again believers in Him - a SPIRITUAL house, the temple of God, of which each one of us is a living stone being built up into it. Why do you ignore what St. Peter said through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
He was the street-level leader among the 12 who exercised a general pastoral office, not the first of line infallible popes the NT church looked to as its supreme head. Nor is there any apostolic succession save for Judas to maintain the original number of the 12. See here .
At the time of Luther there were many abhorrent practices in the church.
That is not what most RCs here admit.
Where today are the keys given to Peter to bind on earth and in Heaven?
The keys, or key, was faith and the gospel of regeneration, as by it believers are placed into the kingdom of Christ. (Col/ 1:13)
And as Robertson states,
We shall soon see the disciples actually disputing again (Mat_18:1) as to which of them is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven as they will again (Mat_20:21) and even on the night before Christ’s death. Clearly neither Peter nor the rest understood Jesus to say here that Peter was to have supreme authority.
The binding and loosing is repeated by Jesus to all the disciples (Mat_18:18). Later after the Resurrection Christ will use this same language to all the disciples (Joh_20:23)
Certainly none of the Protestant churches claim them
And why is that? i will ask you the question that RCs avoid answering clearly,
So your argument is that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for valid assurance of Truth and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith. (Jn. 14:16; 16:13; Mt. 16:18)
And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Thus those who dissent from the latter are in rebellion to God?
Who then on earth has the keys to settle doctrinal disputes, certainly one of authority descended from the seat of Peter should
Rome cannot, as besides the error of your fundamental premise of authenticity by historical descent, Rome's "apostles" utterly fail of the requirements and unique manner and degree of attestation that marked Biblical apostles, because of which the NT had its unity.
Nor was an infallible magisterium the Scriptural means of providing and preserving Truth.
And a centralized can just as easily take the problem of errant doctrine from the personal level to the corporate. As Rome has.
Who can decide if fighting for your country in a war is right or wrong?
Who can decide that bowing before statues and beseeching to the person it represents in Heaven for supernatural aid, which is nowhere exampled nor tau ght amid the approx. 200 prayers in Scripture , thus attributing a uniquely Divine Divine attributes to the person it represents, among other things .
But is based upon the unScriptural presumption of Rome, which has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.
Thus lacking both any Scriptural record or from early testimony, it is yet asserted, "The mere fact that the Church teaches the doctrine of the Assumption as definitely true is a guarantee that it is true.” — Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1988), p. 275.
What sets the various “Catholic” churches apart from all protestant churches is that they have (certainly at least claim) a priesthood that they themselves did not give unto themselves
It does set them apart - error - since the Holy Spirit nowhere titles NT pastors "priests," out of over 150 times archhiereus/hiereus occurs, or shows them engaging in any uniquely sacrificial function. Presbuteros does not mean priest, and saying it is based on a etymological fallacy, which is the result of imposed functional equivalence, and error begetting error.
some seminaries have a “laying on of hands” ceremony where someone who felt called of God ordains someone else.
So you have been to seminary? Those normally laying hands in ordination are called pastors themselves.
The minister said he could not use any of them because they were confusing, that they might lead some people to conclude that there was a literal Resurrection instead of a spiritual Resurrection.
And so liberal Prots mean all is bad, and you joined a church that has taught multitudes for decades such things as that such stories as Balaam and the donkey, Noah's flood, Jonah and the fish, etc., are fables, and that Divinely sanctioned events in Joshua's conquests were folk tales, and that certain historical events in the gospels did not literally occur as described. Etc.
And if a liberal, pro-abortion, pro-sodomite RC is important enough in the world, they may even be able to write to the pope and receive a personal reply, without any apparent censure, and without any evident repentance, have masses said in their home and at death be honored as a Heaven-bound soul.
And in which the majority are liberal, in contrast to their evang. counterparts. Which constitutes what Rome really overall believes. (Mt. 7 ;20; Ja. 2:18)
And that evangelicals should leave their conservative churches and join this unholy amalgamation.
That part is sound, but Rome makes Scripture and history to serve it.
So then Jews are the author of the Old Testaments... not God
So we follow the books of men, some Jewish some Catholic..not the word of God..how confusing...how arrogant ..to claim both the authority of God for the Bible when convenient and the Church when convenient.
So by your logic does the Pope have a Rabbi to guide him and the Catholic church for the old testament? ..
By the way didn't Jesus get in trouble for daring to teach from the scriptures with authority and not following the dictates of the Pharisees as the official scriptural interpreters?..
So besides being our Lord and Savior..Jesus was the first heretic ...it what he was charged with ..so it would make him the first Protestant..as in “protest” the religious authoritarians of his day
The fallacy of the RC polemic is seen in the lack of RC answers to this. See also post 219
Falsely (or with no proof) attributed to Martin Luther Which you simply pass along with other fallacious parroted polemics.
Meaning the Roman Catholic Church, since the EOs consider themselves the one true church as well, while both are assertions, as Rome is fundamentally different, and turns members into cultic devotees who seem to suppose they can gain indulgences by incessantly pasting RC propaganda.
Hooey. You are merely spouting the roman position that evolved centuries later... and doing it well.
Look up the etymology and history for the word priest on wikipedia, which is an unbiased site as far as religion. The way I explained it is correct, that is why it makes sense.
Wrong on two accounts. Etymologies are not definition s See etymological fallacy on WP, even though it is definitely a biased on religion. "The etymological fallacy is a genetic fallacy that holds, erroneously, that the present-day meaning of a word or phrase should necessarily be similar to its historical meaning. This is a linguistic misconception.."
As said above, the Holy Spirit nowhere titles NT pastors "priests," out of over 150 times archhiereus/hiereus occurs, or shows them engaging in any uniquely sacrificial function. Presbuteros does not mean priest, and saying it does is based on a etymological fallacy, which is the result of imposed functional equivalence, and error begetting error.
"Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions." — Catholic Greg Dues in “Catholic Customs & Traditions
As R. J. Grigaitis (O.F.S.) states while also trying to justify the use of priest:
"The Greek word for this office is ‘ιερευς (hiereus), which can be literally translated into Latin as sacerdos. First century Christians [such as the inspired writers] felt that their special type of hiereus (sacerdos) was so removed from the original that they gave it a new name, presbuteros (presbyter). Unfortunately, sacerdos didn't evolve into an English word, but the word priest took on its definition." http://grigaitis.net/weekly/2007/2007-04-27.html
"So far as i know, it was only ca. 200 that the term “priest” started to be applied to the bishop and only still later was it applied to the presbyter... When the eucharist began to be thought of as a sacrifice, the person assigned to preside at the eucharist (bishop and later presbyter) would soon be called a priest, since priests were involved with sacrifice." — Raymond Brown (Sulpician Father and a prominent Biblical scholar), Q 95 Questions and Answers on the Bible, p. 125, with Imprimatur.
Some other Catholics also confess that “the Latin word presbyter has no lingual or morphological relationship with the Latin word sacerdos, but only an inherited semantical relationship.” - http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php?topic=744379.0;wap2z
As a result of this change, the CE states,
“presbyter soon lost its primitive meaning of "ancient" and was applied only to the minister of worship and of the sacrifice.“ - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12406a.htm)
Yet as Vines correctly states, "The NT knows nothing of a sacerdotal class in contrast to the laity; all believers are commanded to offer the sacrifices mentioned in Rom. 12:1; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15, 16; 1 Pet. 2:5; (d) of Christ, Heb. 5:6; 7:11, 15, 17, 21; 8:4 (negatively); (e) of Melchizedek, as the forshadower of Christ, Heb. 7:1, 3." -Vine's NT Dictionary.
The only sense in which pastors are priests is by being part of the general priesthood of all believers, as all are called to sacrifice. (1Pt. 2:5,9; Rm. 12:1; 15:16; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15,16; cf. 9:9)
Nowhere are NT pastors even shown distributing common bread as part of their pastoral functions, let alone turning it into human flesh and distributing it to be eaten to give spiritual and eternal life. What Rome considers paramount and central and common, the Holy Spirit fails to mention describe NT church pastors doing.
Unlike hiereus, presbuteros or episkopeō can be used interchangeably without distinction, as one denotes the position (senior) and the other the function (overseer). Titus was to “set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders [presbuteros] in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop [episkopos] must be blameless...” (Titus 1:5-7) Paul also "sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church," (Acts 20:17) who are said to be episkopos in v. 28. Elders are also who were ordained in Acts 14:23, and bishops along with deacons are the only two classes of clergy whom Paul addresses in writing to the church in Phil. 1:1.
Well; it WAS your guys that had screwed things up SO badly that Luther finally had the gonads to stand up to the 'church' and show the WORLD the ABUSES being perpetrated IN Christ's name.
No problem, as we ALL have some type of handicap; whether we admit it or not.
No; Bob; it's KNOWLEDGE of history...
But YOU apparently have the list at your finger tips; so why not post and teach?
"We defeated them yesterday. God willing, I will provide you with more information. I swear by God, I swear by God, those who are staying in Washington and London have thrown these mercenaries in a crematorium."
"It has been rumored that we have fired scud missiles into Kuwait. I am here now to tell you, we do not have any scud missiles and I don't know why they were fired into Kuwait."
"We made them drink poison last night and Saddam Hussein's soldiers and his great forces gave the Americans a lesson which will not be forgotten by history. Truly."
"When we were making the law, when we were writing the literature and the mathematics the grandfathers of Blair and little Bush were scratching around in caves"
"I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly."
Oh; to be able to call down Fire from Heaven...
Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary!)
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