Where does the Bible say this?
Answer: It doesn't.
Jesus Christ: You can’t impeach Him and He ain’t going to resign.
Posted on 03/20/2014 7:47:22 AM PDT by Gamecock
Free will is indisputable.
Of course, no offense taken.
Is it really?
Are there foods you detest and can’t put in your mouth, in spite of the fact that you know it is good for you? No matter how hard you try you can’t eat it? Is your free will violated by this taste?
Kind of a ridiculous comparison, but our precious free will will always choose the path of damnation and ruin UNTIL the Holy Spirit regenerates us (aka cause us to be born again). Once we are born again we then, of our free will, will come to faith in Jesus.
You sure did not get this doctrine from God. Going to 'hell' is a 'choice' that every soul gets to make. People love choices and so they are free to make them.
Predestination is an action that took place before the casting down/overthrow of the first rebel who decided he was god. Some souls did not follow the rebel, they were deemed loyal, trustworthy thus set aside to do the LORD's work through this flesh age. All souls in a flesh body are sinners, except Christ.
Strange how 'kings of their own castles' have issues with the Creator that created everything expecting discipline.
Predestination is a history lesson. Problem for most is they fit Peter's description of IIPeter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
that by the word of God the heavens were of OLD, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 (When predestination took place) Whereby the world that then WAS, being overflowed with water, perished:
This is not Noah's flood...
Young earth creation is not Biblical.
Where does the Bible say this?
Answer: It doesn't.
Jesus Christ: You can’t impeach Him and He ain’t going to resign.
It may seem hard to miss, but notice this verse is not an "offer" (which is the way most folks take this). It is a statement. Read it carefully and you will see Jesus is simply saying those who believe on Him will never perish. He does not say, "So, anyone interested?" He does not say, "And, anyone who wants to can come to Me." Actually, later in John (6:44 & 65) He says that no one CAN come unless the Father draws them and then absolutely every one of them will be saved.
They were great - and I owe you guys a huge debt of thanks - you all fostered a Fascination with theology, and really pushed me to think (amongst the barbs and laughs)
**** Predestination is a history lesson. ****
It is Biblical.
“The plan (predestination) is that we be in fellowship with God.”
“But we can also choose to not live according to God’s will and thus separate ourselves from God.”
I think we need to draw a distinction between predestination, and what God wishes for us. Obviously, God wishes that we all would choose rightly and accept salvation. However, just because he wishes that, doesn’t mean that he predestines that for all of us.
Of that there is no argument. What is being instructed is not understood let alone taught by the majority in Christianity. I am reminded of Paul bringing forth into the Gospel IKings 19:10-18 in Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him. "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand man, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal." .... The reason Christ spoke in parables, it is not given that all will understand. Matthew 13:10- IF God places a blindness over the eyes no man is going to rip it off. That is why there is the 'Lord's day', a time of direct teaching as foretold by Ezekiel 38-to the end.
Amen. That “draw” in John 6:44 is the Greek “helkuo helko” which means “to drag.” The same word was used to describe dragging in a net brimming with fish in John 21.
But there are a couple of passages that eliminate “free will” from the salvation equation:
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
So we’re born again (absolutely) not of or originating in blood or inheritance, nor of or originating in our will, nor of or originating in the will of any other man, but of or originating in God’s will.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So our faith is (absolutely) not of or originating within ourselves, it is the gift of God.
We’re saved by the grace of God, not by our works. Grace is undeserved merit. Choosing righteousness and salvation would be the ultimate “good work.”
If we come to repentance and faith, it’s because God changed our will from hating Him to loving Him. Like the Apostle Paul said here:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Those “nones” are absolute negations.
There’s no doubt this is a hard doctrine, and I was raised Arminian like most of the US nowadays. But this is why we’ll be singing His praises for all eternity. He chose us, who deserved hell just like everybody else, to worship Him for all eternity.
Like Spurgeon said:
“I know nothing, nothing again, that is more humbling for us than this doctrine of election. I have sometimes fallen prostrate before it, when endeavouring to understand it. I have stretched my wings, and, eagle-like, I have soared towards the sun. Steady has been my eye, and true my wing, for a season; but, when I came near it, and the one thought possessed me,—”God hath from the beginning chosen you unto salvation,” I was lost in its lustre, I was staggered with the mighty thought; and from the dizzy elevation down came my soul, prostrate and broken, saying, “Lord, I am nothing, I am less than nothing. Why me? Why me?”
Jesus Christ: You can’t impeach Him and He ain’t going to resign.
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" (Rom 10:13-15 KJV)
Whether that was predestination, or not, I do not know. It did not happen in a church, because I had not been inside a church in over a decade.
Philip
Psalm 14, Psalm 53 and Romans 3 (which repeat one another) says that God looked over Mankind as a whole ("over the sons of men") and without His intervention, the Answer was None.
None Sought Him, None Understood Him and None did "Good" in His eyes. None came to Him on their own and choose Him.
Man's nature is such that he or she is so wrapped up in their selves and their sins that they will not look to God, confess their sins and be saved despite the evidence of God in Nature and in everything we see. The Apostle Paul calls this nature as been "dead in trespasses and sin".
Therefore an Act of God must occur for anyone not to be "dead" anymore. Their brain must be reprogrammed to accept faith (as faith is totally alien to the natural mans thinking), he or she must have a heart transplant (the heart of stone must go), they are given Ears to Hear (as Christ said) so that they can hear the Word, Believe and Confess the faith which God has planted in them.
So the ability to choose Him is vastly more complicated and involved than most think.
Nope. It is the Doctrine that God revealed Himself in Nature and His Word to know how to avoid Hell. Yet, men choose Hell through their willful ignorance of Him and reprobation (through the wallowing in the deadness of their own sin). That God has Compassion and Mercy on some deliberately (a loving predestination) leaving the rest to their own devices.
None who are at the Judgement Throne of God will have any excuse to say He was not Just or that they were not warned. All who do not believe upon the Sin bearer (The Lord Jesus Christ) for Salvation will know right away what they missed. It will be as plain as day before the Throne as nothing will be hidden from them there.
Predestination = Undeserved love and forethought to folks who are undeserving of anything.
It is best summed up in the picture of Roman adoption. A rich Roman farmer has had no children yet wants to pass on the legacy of his name. He would take a slaves child, give it His name and the inheritance of the entire farm before the child even knows it. The child will be lord and master of the farm and has not the foggiest idea that this will be so.
There is nothing the child does to earn it, there is nothing the child even knows to appropriate it. The Adoption is done without the child being a part of it.
It is a wonderful thing. Yet modern man says it is not fair and that everyone should be given everything.
Instead God is just to give modern man his just deserts and answer Him in what is truly fair. That he spurned the evidence of Himself in Creation and the free gift of His Salvation to anyone who believes upon Christ atonement. This is what is fair to all.
Sorry, nothing trumps God. Nothing says what He wills will not come to pass. Nothing can stay His hand.
The Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject says "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing John 6:39.
If man's will trumps God's then Christ would loose some, but He says He looses Nothing.
Sorry, God is omnipotent, He cannot be trumped.
Please explain.
God gave man the right to choose (Deut 30:19). That is God’s will, that man makes the choice. While God COULD over ride man’s choices, he wont because he keeps his promises.
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