Funny. I just found this elsewhere.....
Posted on 01/23/2014 9:29:40 PM PST by NKP_Vet
Again which comes first? The Gospel or instructions in obedience? Do the 10 commandments save us?
The Matthew 18 reference in context teaches us how we are to handle sin within the church. Which neither one of us could cast stones on the other given we both know every church out there is not in full obedience of this passage.
“What are you?”
I am a white male mid fourties...:) sorry old sarcastic Jesuit education flashes back now and then:)
I am Evangelical Christian.
Excellent reference from Hebrews.
Don’t get me started on the Qur’an deal. JP 2 should have strapped a Claymore mine to that Qur’an and hit the detonator.
We only need keep one:
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Mat 7:12)
"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Rom 13:10)
"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Gal 5:14)
"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" (Jam 2:8)
Of course, to keep that one requires us to also keep another, but they are similar:
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Mat 22:36-40)"
I interpret that to mean, if you hate yourself, you still have no right to hate your neighbour.
This was Jesus' chief (maybe the only serious) complaint against the Jews. Love thy neighbour was the part of the Law that the rabbi's and Jewish leadership tended to ignore. They certainly were not very neighbourly to the prophets. Recall this:
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Mat 23:23)
Loving one's neighbor was clearly written in the Law:
"Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord." (Lev 19:18)
Philip
Indeed. I believe our obedience does not please the Father without the reckoned righteousness of the Son. Without His Grace, I also believe obedience is impossible.
I also.
Or the Albigensian Crusade, the Waldenses, Bloody Mary, etc., etc.
The church didn't die for me and it can't save me.
Jesus is the only One through whom salvation is possible. Jesus saves, not a denomination.
Good. Then the *church* isn't needed.
You're getting there.
Funny. I just found this elsewhere.....
2 John 1:7-11 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
They have to believe it. It's in the Catechism of the Catholic church..
You could add a few Kennedy names to that list...
“All salvation is through the Catholic Church...”
Balderdash!
I’m a Christian...
and no I’m not a Catholic..
I’m a Protestant...
I am Catholic because I was baptized into my faith. It wasn’t really until I was older, and challenged on my faith by Jehovah Witnesses, that I had to sit down and read, research and truly ask the “why” of my faith. I do believe that Christ intended only one Church, and that Church grew and flourished and was persecuted for almost 400 years before Christians were presented with the Bible. I believe that mankind has indeed screwed things up and the faith is obviously fractured throughout the centuries. That being said, I have come to the conclusion that when my time is up and I am judged, Christ will ask “Did you love me, and did you love the least of me?” I do t think he will ask if I was Catholic. My 2cents. God bless all on this thread!
“Good. Then the *church* isn’t needed.”
He thinks that his church dispenses grace, and that, after the initial non-works grace is received, grace is then “merited” for the purpose of salvation.
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, WE CAN THEN MERIT for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
Probability of salvation is an interesting choice of words here.
In the Catholic church, you only go to heaven if the church says you do, otherwise you remain in "Purgatory". There is no assurance of Salvation and are dependent upon man to get into heaven.
Whereas, the Lord Jesus Christ, says He looses "none of them". He looses none of them who are "Born of God" and Believe upon Him (His works) for Salvation alone. He told the Pharisees "Unless you believe that I AM HE, you will DIE IN YOUR SINS".
Resting on your good works and your denomination WILL NOT GET YOU INTO HEAVEN. You must believe upon the Savior, Jesus Christ, and no other - otherwise it is NOT SALVATION.
Any dependency including any other person - Joseph Smith, Sun Yen Moon, Jim Jones, and even Mary (The Lord Jesus's mother) will not get you into Heaven.
Only Believing upon Christ Alone.
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