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Pope Responds to Rush Limbaugh
Catholic in the Ozarks ^ | December 16, 2013

Posted on 12/16/2013 3:41:05 PM PST by NYer

[CC-BY-SA-2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)] via Wikimedia Commons
Pope Francis
presidencia.gov.ar
If Rush Limbaugh were to say this Monday that his accusation of Marxism in the papacy provoked a response from the pope himself, he would be 100% right.  Pope Francis responded to the following question in his latest interview with Andrea Tornielli (Vatican Insider)...
TORNIELLI: Some of the passages in the “Evangelii Gaudium” attracted the criticism of ultraconservatives in the USA. As a Pope, what does it feel like to be called a “Marxist”? 
POPE FRANCIS: “The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.”
The term "ultraconservatives in the USA" is umbrella speak for Rush Limbaugh and those who followed his lead in the right-wing media.  If you would like to see Limbaugh's monologue that led to this little exchange between "golden EIB microphone" and the Chair of Peter, I have linked to a video here in a previous article.

In Limbaugh's own words: "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope."  Pope Francis responds in his own words: "The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended." 

There is it folks.  Marxism is wrong.  Period.  Now we shouldn't be surprised about this should we?  The popes have been railing against Marxism for 120 years now.  Why should this one be any different.  The Holy Father goes on, so as to show a little charity toward Mr. Limbaugh and gang.  "I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended."  He is not offended by the accusation.  Why? Because he has met many good (well intentioned) people in his life who are Marxists, so he doesn't view this as an insult.

Now that's pretty gracious.  I wish I could say I felt the same way when people call me a Marxist (and they do).  I tend to get a little upset when they do this, because not only is it untrue (I'm not a Marxist), but as an American, the very accusation seems rather "un-American" to me -- an insult to my nationality.  The pope is not burdened with the same nationality complex as I, so he doesn't take it in an offensive way.  Of course you're probably wondering why anyone would call me a Marxist in the first place.  I suppose they call me a Marxist for the same reason Rush Limbaugh said "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope." 

They lack imagination, and they are uneducated on this matter.

Yep, I said it.  I just called Rush Limbaugh unimaginative and uneducated -- on this issue.  Here is why I said it, and I pointed this out in my previous article.  I am a Distributist, and Distributism is an economic model that comes directly from papal teaching, stretching back 120 years to Pope Leo XIII papal encyclical Rerum Novarum.  Multiple encyclicals have been written on the topic since then, and each one carried far more weight than Pope Francis' recent apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium.  So, you thought Pope Francis' words were politically charged? Wait till you read what previous popes have said, with more authority and weight of official Church teaching.  Here are just a few quotes...
"Hence by degrees it has come to pass that Working Men have been given over, isolated and defenseless, to the callousness of employers and the greed of unrestrained competition." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #3 
"On the one side there is the party which holds the power because it holds the wealth; which has in its grasp all labor and all trade; which manipulates for its own benefit and its own purposes all the sources of supply, and which is powerfully represented in the councils of the State itself. On the other side there is the needy and powerless multitude, sore and suffering, always ready for disturbance." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #47 
"Just as the unity of human society cannot be built upon “class” conflict, so the proper ordering of economic affairs cannot be left to the free play of rugged competition.  From this source, as from a polluted spring, have proceeded all the errors of the `individualistic’ school.  This school, forgetful or ignorant of the social and moral aspects of economic activities, regarded these as completely free and immune from any intervention by public authority, for they would have in the market place and in unregulated competition a principle of self-direction more suitable for guiding them than any created intellect which might intervene.  Free competition, however, though justified and quite useful within certain limits, cannot be an adequate controlling principle in economic affairs.  This has been abundantly proved by the consequences that have followed from the free rein given to these dangerous individualistic ideas." -- Pope Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, #88 
"Such a society ["a society of free work, of enterprise and of participation"] is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the State, so as to guarantee that the basic needs of the whole of society are satisfied." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #35 
"It is the task of the State to provide for the defense and preservation of common goods such as the natural and human environments, which cannot be safeguarded simply by market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #40 
"There is a risk that a radical capitalistic ideology could spread which refuses even to consider these problems, in the a priori belief that any attempt to solve them is doomed to failure, and which blindly entrusts their solution to the free development of market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #42 
"The Western countries… run the risk of seeing [the collapse of Communism] as a one-sided victory of their own economic system, and thereby failing to make necessary corrections in that system." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #56 
"Business management cannot concern itself only with the interests of the proprietors, but must also assume responsibility for all the other stakeholders who contribute to the life of the business: the workers, the clients, the suppliers of various elements of production, the community of reference." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #40 
"In the face of unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth. One also senses the urgent need to find innovative ways of implementing the principle of responsibility to protect and of giving poorer nations an effective voice in shared decision-making. This seems necessary in order to arrive at a political, juridical and economic order which can increase and give direction to international cooperation for the development of all peoples in solidarity. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need for a true world political authority." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #67
When put into the context of previous papal teaching, (teaching that has far more weighty authority I might add, because these are papal encyclicals, not mere apostolic exhortations), it would seem that Pope Francis' remarks are quite mild in comparison.  This is papal teaching that goes back 120 years!  Are they all Marxists?  I suppose by Rush Limbaugh's criteria they might be.  In which case Catholic listeners of Rush might find themselves having to choose between the "doctor of democracy" and the Vicar of Christ.  Or maybe it's not that simple.  Maybe Rush is actually wrong about something, and if he is, well that just changes everything.

The truth is, Rush Limbaugh is not alone, and this article is not intended to pick on him exclusively.  There are many more conservative talk-radio show hosts out there, and a good number of them follow Rush's lead on stories.  This is added to a plethora of print media and Internet outlets that likewise share Limbaugh's opinion on a great many things.  Then of course there is the popular (and somewhat Leftist) mainstream news media. While these obviously don't agree with the "all-knowing, all-sensing, all-everything Maha Rushie," they do however share his view of Pope Francis as a liberal Marxist, but to them that's considered a positive thing.  I assert here that they are all wrong.  Why?  Because they are talking heads in the media who have never studied papal social teaching on economics before.  They've never bothered to research this, and what little investigation they might have done has been coloured by their own biases and limited world view.  So I'm going to simplify matters for all of them right now, and lay it out in plain and simple English for them to absorb.

The popes are not Marxists.  The popes are not socialists.  The popes are not fascists.  The popes are not Keynesians.  The popes are not Austrians.  The popes are not supply-siders.  The popes are not capitalists at all.  The popes are none of these things.  They have no economic model they follow.  Rather, they make the principles upon which economic models are built, and the only economic model built on papal teaching is distributism. 

In this loose sense we could say the popes are distributists, but we should keep in mind, the popes are not economic ideologues.  They leave such matters to those who can formulate such models.  Distributism comes from the popes.  The popes are not literally distributists.  Does that make sense?

Now the word distributism does not mean "re-distribution" as is the common misconception.  These are two completely different concepts.  Redistribution falls into the Keynesian model of economics, and is often a key component to other economic models as well, such as socialism and Marxism.  What we are talking about is taking money from one group of people and giving it to another.  While virtually all forms of government engage in this to some degree, that is not what is meant by "distributism."  Rather, what is meant by "distributism" is simply this.  The most just economic system is one in which productive property (small business, etc.) is the most widely distributed to the most people possible.  Distributism is about small family-run business.  In a distributist economy, small business is the boss.  It is the backbone of the economy. Distributists envision a world where the majority of commerce is exchanged through small business.  It's a world were nearly any man can "become his own boss."  Realising that some forms of business need to be much larger in order to function, Distributists call for the widespread creation of cooperative corporations, wherein the workers own a share (and a vote) in the management of a company.  This is the core of distributism, but it doesn't stop there.  There is much more in the way of trade guilds, licensing and small government based on subsidiarity.  Much of this will sound foreign to conservative talk-radio in America, and that's too bad, because there are a whole lot of "conservative" things to talk about here. 

I invite Rush and gang to do a little more homework.  Now that you've been graciously answered by the pope, Rush, you owe it to him to figure out what he's talking about.  I invite you to take a look at this Wikipedia article on distributism and then read a few articles on The Distributist Review.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic
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To: editor-surveyor

Then why didn’t he just say that? Instead he felt the need to bash the system that provides for giving.


121 posted on 12/16/2013 7:53:05 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: editor-surveyor

Such judgmentalism. When did this thread become a trial on Rush’s understanding of Christianity?


122 posted on 12/16/2013 7:56:06 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: DeprogramLiberalism

Why didn’t he say what?


123 posted on 12/16/2013 7:56:07 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: DeprogramLiberalism

You obviously haven’t listened to Rush popping off on the Bible.


124 posted on 12/16/2013 7:57:39 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: irishjuggler

>There are certainly many nice people who have been swept up in false, evil ideologies like Marxism... and Nazism and fascism.<

.
You mean that after accepting Marxism or Nazism, nice people remain nice?

Hmm, Heinrich Himmler was just a nice chickenfarmer who adopted Nazism.


125 posted on 12/16/2013 7:58:55 PM PST by 353FMG
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To: editor-surveyor

>Why didn’t he say what?<

That he was just calling on the people in general to be more giving.

>You obviously haven’t listened to Rush popping off on the Bible.<

You didn’t answer my question: When did this thread become a trial on Rush’s understanding of Christianity?


126 posted on 12/16/2013 8:02:12 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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Comment #127 Removed by Moderator

To: editor-surveyor

The issue was ideology not religion. But I guess when a person can’t argue the issue at hand - change the issue and bash the antagonist.


128 posted on 12/16/2013 8:11:13 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
And people who want to give away other people's stuff aren't good in any sense, not even in intention. They're thieves.
129 posted on 12/16/2013 8:53:38 PM PST by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: 353FMG

I know. I never hear the left’s heroes (not accusing the Pope of anything) give credit for even “good intentions” or “heart in the right place” or any of that distraction to people on the right for being people who work hard for what they have, and then give some of it away themselves to the needy. But maybe that’s because people who give away their own stuff can’t go around trumpeting it without sounding self-righteous.

But the left can break their arms all day patting themselves on the back for wanting, and for telling the world that they want, to give away other people’s stuff.


130 posted on 12/16/2013 8:59:20 PM PST by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: DeprogramLiberalism

No, you want it to be ideology, but pope Francis was not speaking in political terms. To Yehova we are all judged individually, not as political bodies.


131 posted on 12/16/2013 9:04:36 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Theo
Jesus spoke a LOT on the topic of money and finances. It is appropriate that the Pope follow Christ’s example, and speak about it as well.

But Jesus spoke about what you can do with your money. Not what government can do with your money. And when it comes to WWJD, just remember that turning over tables and chasing people with a bullwhip is within the realm of possibilities.

132 posted on 12/16/2013 9:05:59 PM PST by N. Theknow (Kennedys-Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat-But they know what's best for you.)
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To: CommunityMan
Even Jesus offered parables to help explain the concepts that people found difficult to understand.

Nope...Jesus offered parables to confuse people...To separate the believers from the unbelievers...

133 posted on 12/16/2013 9:08:02 PM PST by Iscool
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To: editor-surveyor
Attributing motive to another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

134 posted on 12/16/2013 9:13:48 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: editor-surveyor

>No, you want it to be ideology, but pope Francis was not speaking in political terms.<

Of course it was about ideology. The OP made a point of tying it to distributism. Take your obfuscation elsewhere. Nobody wants to hear your judgmentalism and demagoguery.

(This is your example of Christianity? Sheesh!)


135 posted on 12/16/2013 9:15:30 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: jjotto; DeprogramLiberalism
Or the Pope simply lacks the language to discuss economics without using popular socialist shibboleths. A lot of “educated” people do.

Popular socialist shibboleths such as "trickle down economics."

136 posted on 12/16/2013 10:11:10 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Certainly, if you look at that term as a dog whistle for American liberals, it probably earned the pope a man-of-the-year prize.


137 posted on 12/16/2013 10:18:39 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: 353FMG
You mean that after accepting Marxism or Nazism, nice people remain nice? Hmm, Heinrich Himmler was just a nice chickenfarmer who adopted Nazism.

Holy out-of-context, Batman. But, yeah, it's easy to demonize people. When you have millions of people willingly fighting on the side of a Hitler or a Stalin or a Mao, it's true that many if not most of those supporters are just people--no more or less evil than anyone else. My point was that in the context of a liberal-left media culture, there's no penalty for a liberal-leftish pope to say that there are nice Marxists. Such a statement could just as easily and truthfully be made about Nazis or fascists... but such a statement would never be made (and if it were made, would never be allowed to stand unchallenged by the media).
138 posted on 12/16/2013 11:06:45 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: DeprogramLiberalism
Ultimately, this is what Rush and all conservatives objected to in the pope's statements - proposing that a loss of individual liberty is desirable. It isn't. Jesus wasn't against the rich or giant corporations - He always portrayed God in His parables as a rich CEO.

Good point! Almighty God is frequently referred to that way - he "owns the cattle on a thousand hilltops" comes to mind. God also tells us that "if a man doesn't work he shouldn't eat" and that "if a man doesn't provide for his own household, he is worse than an infidel". So, there is a balance here where we can trust God to provide for our needs but that he expects us to get off our butts and earn it. Jesus said we would always have the poor with us and that we should help those who are in need when it's not their own faults that got them there. One very good motivator is hunger. Far too many people - especially in this country - grow to expect someone else to take care of them.

There is a vast difference between Marxism and Capitalism. Marxism, I think, destroys the compassion we should have for the unfortunate by forced distributism. The Lord loves a "cheerful giver".

139 posted on 12/16/2013 11:39:28 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: ExpatGator

Interesting thank you for posting that it certainly enriches this discussion.

I would be interested to hear Wood’s opinion of Pole Francis. It does not appear as though he has written anything on Francis, since his election really at least not on that blog. That’s a shame I’d like to hear/read this author’s take on this issue.


140 posted on 12/17/2013 4:38:12 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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