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Pope Responds to Rush Limbaugh
Catholic in the Ozarks ^ | December 16, 2013

Posted on 12/16/2013 3:41:05 PM PST by NYer

[CC-BY-SA-2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)] via Wikimedia Commons
Pope Francis
presidencia.gov.ar
If Rush Limbaugh were to say this Monday that his accusation of Marxism in the papacy provoked a response from the pope himself, he would be 100% right.  Pope Francis responded to the following question in his latest interview with Andrea Tornielli (Vatican Insider)...
TORNIELLI: Some of the passages in the “Evangelii Gaudium” attracted the criticism of ultraconservatives in the USA. As a Pope, what does it feel like to be called a “Marxist”? 
POPE FRANCIS: “The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.”
The term "ultraconservatives in the USA" is umbrella speak for Rush Limbaugh and those who followed his lead in the right-wing media.  If you would like to see Limbaugh's monologue that led to this little exchange between "golden EIB microphone" and the Chair of Peter, I have linked to a video here in a previous article.

In Limbaugh's own words: "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope."  Pope Francis responds in his own words: "The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended." 

There is it folks.  Marxism is wrong.  Period.  Now we shouldn't be surprised about this should we?  The popes have been railing against Marxism for 120 years now.  Why should this one be any different.  The Holy Father goes on, so as to show a little charity toward Mr. Limbaugh and gang.  "I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended."  He is not offended by the accusation.  Why? Because he has met many good (well intentioned) people in his life who are Marxists, so he doesn't view this as an insult.

Now that's pretty gracious.  I wish I could say I felt the same way when people call me a Marxist (and they do).  I tend to get a little upset when they do this, because not only is it untrue (I'm not a Marxist), but as an American, the very accusation seems rather "un-American" to me -- an insult to my nationality.  The pope is not burdened with the same nationality complex as I, so he doesn't take it in an offensive way.  Of course you're probably wondering why anyone would call me a Marxist in the first place.  I suppose they call me a Marxist for the same reason Rush Limbaugh said "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope." 

They lack imagination, and they are uneducated on this matter.

Yep, I said it.  I just called Rush Limbaugh unimaginative and uneducated -- on this issue.  Here is why I said it, and I pointed this out in my previous article.  I am a Distributist, and Distributism is an economic model that comes directly from papal teaching, stretching back 120 years to Pope Leo XIII papal encyclical Rerum Novarum.  Multiple encyclicals have been written on the topic since then, and each one carried far more weight than Pope Francis' recent apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium.  So, you thought Pope Francis' words were politically charged? Wait till you read what previous popes have said, with more authority and weight of official Church teaching.  Here are just a few quotes...
"Hence by degrees it has come to pass that Working Men have been given over, isolated and defenseless, to the callousness of employers and the greed of unrestrained competition." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #3 
"On the one side there is the party which holds the power because it holds the wealth; which has in its grasp all labor and all trade; which manipulates for its own benefit and its own purposes all the sources of supply, and which is powerfully represented in the councils of the State itself. On the other side there is the needy and powerless multitude, sore and suffering, always ready for disturbance." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #47 
"Just as the unity of human society cannot be built upon “class” conflict, so the proper ordering of economic affairs cannot be left to the free play of rugged competition.  From this source, as from a polluted spring, have proceeded all the errors of the `individualistic’ school.  This school, forgetful or ignorant of the social and moral aspects of economic activities, regarded these as completely free and immune from any intervention by public authority, for they would have in the market place and in unregulated competition a principle of self-direction more suitable for guiding them than any created intellect which might intervene.  Free competition, however, though justified and quite useful within certain limits, cannot be an adequate controlling principle in economic affairs.  This has been abundantly proved by the consequences that have followed from the free rein given to these dangerous individualistic ideas." -- Pope Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, #88 
"Such a society ["a society of free work, of enterprise and of participation"] is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the State, so as to guarantee that the basic needs of the whole of society are satisfied." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #35 
"It is the task of the State to provide for the defense and preservation of common goods such as the natural and human environments, which cannot be safeguarded simply by market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #40 
"There is a risk that a radical capitalistic ideology could spread which refuses even to consider these problems, in the a priori belief that any attempt to solve them is doomed to failure, and which blindly entrusts their solution to the free development of market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #42 
"The Western countries… run the risk of seeing [the collapse of Communism] as a one-sided victory of their own economic system, and thereby failing to make necessary corrections in that system." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #56 
"Business management cannot concern itself only with the interests of the proprietors, but must also assume responsibility for all the other stakeholders who contribute to the life of the business: the workers, the clients, the suppliers of various elements of production, the community of reference." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #40 
"In the face of unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth. One also senses the urgent need to find innovative ways of implementing the principle of responsibility to protect and of giving poorer nations an effective voice in shared decision-making. This seems necessary in order to arrive at a political, juridical and economic order which can increase and give direction to international cooperation for the development of all peoples in solidarity. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need for a true world political authority." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #67
When put into the context of previous papal teaching, (teaching that has far more weighty authority I might add, because these are papal encyclicals, not mere apostolic exhortations), it would seem that Pope Francis' remarks are quite mild in comparison.  This is papal teaching that goes back 120 years!  Are they all Marxists?  I suppose by Rush Limbaugh's criteria they might be.  In which case Catholic listeners of Rush might find themselves having to choose between the "doctor of democracy" and the Vicar of Christ.  Or maybe it's not that simple.  Maybe Rush is actually wrong about something, and if he is, well that just changes everything.

The truth is, Rush Limbaugh is not alone, and this article is not intended to pick on him exclusively.  There are many more conservative talk-radio show hosts out there, and a good number of them follow Rush's lead on stories.  This is added to a plethora of print media and Internet outlets that likewise share Limbaugh's opinion on a great many things.  Then of course there is the popular (and somewhat Leftist) mainstream news media. While these obviously don't agree with the "all-knowing, all-sensing, all-everything Maha Rushie," they do however share his view of Pope Francis as a liberal Marxist, but to them that's considered a positive thing.  I assert here that they are all wrong.  Why?  Because they are talking heads in the media who have never studied papal social teaching on economics before.  They've never bothered to research this, and what little investigation they might have done has been coloured by their own biases and limited world view.  So I'm going to simplify matters for all of them right now, and lay it out in plain and simple English for them to absorb.

The popes are not Marxists.  The popes are not socialists.  The popes are not fascists.  The popes are not Keynesians.  The popes are not Austrians.  The popes are not supply-siders.  The popes are not capitalists at all.  The popes are none of these things.  They have no economic model they follow.  Rather, they make the principles upon which economic models are built, and the only economic model built on papal teaching is distributism. 

In this loose sense we could say the popes are distributists, but we should keep in mind, the popes are not economic ideologues.  They leave such matters to those who can formulate such models.  Distributism comes from the popes.  The popes are not literally distributists.  Does that make sense?

Now the word distributism does not mean "re-distribution" as is the common misconception.  These are two completely different concepts.  Redistribution falls into the Keynesian model of economics, and is often a key component to other economic models as well, such as socialism and Marxism.  What we are talking about is taking money from one group of people and giving it to another.  While virtually all forms of government engage in this to some degree, that is not what is meant by "distributism."  Rather, what is meant by "distributism" is simply this.  The most just economic system is one in which productive property (small business, etc.) is the most widely distributed to the most people possible.  Distributism is about small family-run business.  In a distributist economy, small business is the boss.  It is the backbone of the economy. Distributists envision a world where the majority of commerce is exchanged through small business.  It's a world were nearly any man can "become his own boss."  Realising that some forms of business need to be much larger in order to function, Distributists call for the widespread creation of cooperative corporations, wherein the workers own a share (and a vote) in the management of a company.  This is the core of distributism, but it doesn't stop there.  There is much more in the way of trade guilds, licensing and small government based on subsidiarity.  Much of this will sound foreign to conservative talk-radio in America, and that's too bad, because there are a whole lot of "conservative" things to talk about here. 

I invite Rush and gang to do a little more homework.  Now that you've been graciously answered by the pope, Rush, you owe it to him to figure out what he's talking about.  I invite you to take a look at this Wikipedia article on distributism and then read a few articles on The Distributist Review.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Politics
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To: spokeshave
Obama: 'no sudden moves' when talking to whites

Judith A. Klinghofer cites a passage from Barack Obama's first autobiography to remember when listening to his speech today:

On p. 94-95 he describes an effective tactic to deal with White people:

It was usually an effective tactic, another one of those tricks I had learned: People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved - such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn't seem angry all the time.

101 posted on 12/16/2013 6:57:45 PM PST by spokeshave (OMG.......Schadenfreude overload is not covered under Obamacare :-()
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To: John S Mosby
Distributism.... based on WHAT criteria? If it is NOT earned, how is it in any way just. This is more mumbo jumbo. The Catholic Church does not distribute except within their flock, and very communal.

Distributism is not redistribution. Unfortunate name. It's really the opposite--it is based on the idea that the average guy should be his own boss, if possible, and that most of the economy should be dominated by small business. Control should be very local, not handed down from huge centralized government. Some of the ideas reflect what life was like in the US two hundred years ago. It's conservative in many ways. Homeschooling and lack of federal regulation are consistent with distributism. A lovely idea, though not one that will ever take place unless this country collapses altogether.

102 posted on 12/16/2013 7:00:01 PM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: trisham

I missed a thought in there.

I am one of the people on whom these procedures do NOT work. Will see what the doctors do after I schedule a catscan as they have requested.


103 posted on 12/16/2013 7:00:13 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer
Rush didn't call the pope a Marxist. Rush said that what pope stated was pure Marxism. There is a big difference. And the statements reported to be by the pope that Rush addressed were most certainly Marxism, which is a type of command-style collectivist government where the government manages the economy to a lesser or greater extent.

Distributism attempts to have both ways. First it desires that the economy be based on private ownership. (Good) But then it also demands that the government should manage the degree of that ownership. (Bad) Technically, this is a type of fascism. But since fascism is a type of command-style Marxism (collectivism) we circle back to the statements of the pope which come off as Marxism. Any time that the government takes the position of making decisions about the property of the citizens (like how big companies can get, or how rich individuals can become) it erodes individual liberty. Ultimately, this is what Rush and all conservatives objected to in the pope's statements - proposing that a loss of individual liberty is desirable. It isn't. Jesus wasn't against the rich or giant corporations - He always portrayed God in His parables as a rich CEO.

The argument isn't really between named ideologies, but in its basic form between slavery (collectivism) and freedom (individual liberty). There are many steps between all-out slavery and pure freedom. Calling one of those steps distributism doesn't change the fact that it is a variant of collectivism. When I heard the pope's comments my immediate reaction was that he was attempting to fix a system made up of sinners with government regulation (what all collectivists do). Free market capitalism is the only system of freedom, but of course there are sinners running around in it. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The problem is the sinners, not the system.

While the pope may not be a Marxist, he certainly is confused about the difference between collectivism and individual liberty. Perhaps he should stick to speaking about what he knows best.

104 posted on 12/16/2013 7:01:03 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: miss marmelstein

Prayers for you — whatever your troubles are.


105 posted on 12/16/2013 7:01:04 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Hot Tabasco
AHHHH, so it's blasphemy to question anything said by the Pope..........got it!

Well, technically, by the Catholic Church's precepts, I believe that it may be blasphemy in certain circumstances. After all, the Pope is the head of God's church, and speaks for God when speaking Ex Cathedra.

"As a side note, if Rush was so far off base then why did the Pope find it necessary to clarify his statements?"

Courtesy and generosity. If someone misunderstands what I say, then I try to help them understand by offering clarifying statements. Even Jesus offered parables to help explain the concepts that people found difficult to understand. If Jesus needed to clarify things for the benefit of others, you think that mere mortal men like the Pope and myself should somehow be better than that?
106 posted on 12/16/2013 7:02:20 PM PST by CommunityMan
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To: DeprogramLiberalism

Or the Pope simply lacks the language to discuss economics without using popular socialist shibboleths. A lot of “educated” people do.


107 posted on 12/16/2013 7:04:42 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

No. His response about knowing a lot of nice communists illustrates that he is naive.


108 posted on 12/16/2013 7:06:39 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: DeprogramLiberalism

Or he’s playing to his audience, which is increasingly not from the United States.


109 posted on 12/16/2013 7:08:34 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

So, are you suggesting that he is being intentionally and knowingly manipulative? That’s what it sounds like. I prefer to see him as out of his league in discussing economics and ideology. I doubt we’ll ever hear him speak of it again. (But, who knows...)


110 posted on 12/16/2013 7:14:05 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: John S Mosby
Here, try this:

Distributism

There is some confusion because we have changed the meanings of words like "liberal" over the past few hundred years. Distributism developed in response to the frequent cruelties and injustices of nineteenth-century England as it industrialized. In comparison to the way Englishmen of the period lived, the freedoms of the average American farmer or shopowner or tradesman were very desirable indeed. Now we in America have also lost our freedoms. We can agree, surely, that it would be ideal if we could return economic power to the individual in that way, with families running family farms without being driven to sell by confiscatory death taxes, for example, or business people owners regulated out of business.

111 posted on 12/16/2013 7:18:11 PM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: DeprogramLiberalism

Manipulative?

Maybe. A Pope is more politician than many care to admit. Leaders many times see themselves as having responsibilities beyond those perceived by outsiders or even their own supporters.


112 posted on 12/16/2013 7:21:03 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

OK, I can see your point. It’s possible.


113 posted on 12/16/2013 7:25:26 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: NYer

If the Pope is a distributionist, he could start by distributing the Vatican’s assets....


114 posted on 12/16/2013 7:25:54 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: Kandy Atz

The Pope never met an ultra conservative who was a good person.


115 posted on 12/16/2013 7:30:10 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: NYer

What’s Wrong with “Distributism”

https://mises.org/daily/1062


116 posted on 12/16/2013 7:33:16 PM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: NYer

It should be noted that Rush Limbaugh is totally ignorant on the subject of our Savior, and has zero understanding of Yeshua’s commandment to “feed” his sheep.

Rush’s idea of charity is to hold telethons for the Med Mafia.


117 posted on 12/16/2013 7:41:04 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Wow! Such presumption. You know nothing about Rush.

(Or is this sarcasm?)


118 posted on 12/16/2013 7:46:30 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: John S Mosby

>> “Distributism.... based on WHAT criteria? If it is NOT earned, how is it in any way just.” <<

.
For the record, I don’t believe that pope Francis is advocating governmental redistribution of wealth. He is calling on the people in general to be more giving.

Francis is clearly not a silver tongued devil behind the microphone, he needs to learn much.


119 posted on 12/16/2013 7:47:41 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: DeprogramLiberalism

I’ve been listening to Rush since his first program on KFBK.

I know Rush better than he knows himself. You can also check what his brother David has said regarding Rush’s ‘Christian’ understanding.


120 posted on 12/16/2013 7:52:41 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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