Posted on 12/02/2013 11:51:05 AM PST by Gamecock
My friend Michael Horton often comments on the phenomenon of “cage-stage Calvinism,” that strange malady that seems to afflict so many people who have just seen the truth of the Reformed doctrines of grace. We’ve all known one of these “cage-stage Calvinists.” Many of us were even one of them when we were first convinced of God’s sovereignty in salvation.
Cage-stage Calvinists are identifiable by their insistence on turning every discussion into an argument for limited atonement or for making it their personal mission to ensure everyone they know hears—often quite loudly—the truths of divine election. Now, having a zeal for the truth is always commendable. But a zeal for the truth that manifests itself in obnoxiousness won’t convince anyone of the biblical truth of Reformed theology. As many of us can attest from personal experience, it will actually push them away.
Roger Nicole, the late Swiss Reformed theologian and colleague of mine for several decades, once remarked that all human beings are by nature semi-Pelagian, believing that they are not born as slaves to sin. In this country, particularly, we have been indoctrinated into a humanistic understanding of anthropology, especially with respect to our understanding of human freedom. This is the land of the free, after all. We don’t want to believe that we are burdened by negative inclinations and outright enmity toward God, as the Bible teaches us (Rom. 3:9–20). We think that true freedom means having the ability to come to faith without the vanquishing power of saving grace. When we realize that this is not true, that Scripture paints a bleak picture of the human condition apart from grace, that it says it is impossible for us to choose rightly, we want to make sure that everybody else knows it as well. Sometimes we are even angry that no one told us about the true extent of our depravity and the majesty of God’s sovereign grace before.
This gives birth to cage-stage Calvinists, those newly minted Reformed believers who are so aggressive and impatient that they should be locked in a cage for a little while so that they can cool down and mature a little in the faith. At times, someone who becomes convinced of the biblical doctrines of grace finds himself in conflict with friends and family because of his discovery of Reformed theology. More than once I’ve been asked how one should handle hostility from loved ones regarding Reformed theology. If Reformed convictions are causing problems, should one just drop the subject altogether? Are we responsible for convincing others of the truth of the doctrines of grace?
The answer is both yes and no. First let’s consider the “no.” Scripture says that “neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth” (1 Cor. 3:7). Paul is speaking primarily of evangelism in that verse, but I think we can apply it to growth in Christ even after conversion. The Holy Spirit convinces us of truth, and one’s coming to embrace Reformed theology shows this quite clearly. Given our semi-Pelagian inclinations, it takes a tremendous amount of exposure to the Word of God to overcome that natural bias against the doctrines of grace. People hold tenaciously to a particular view of free will that is not taught in Scripture. Calvin once remarked that if you mean by free will a will that is unencumbered by the weight of sin, you’ve used a term that’s far too exalted to apply to us. It takes a lot to overcome the exalted view that most sinners have of themselves. Only the Spirit can finally convince people of His truth.
Recognizing the Spirit’s work, however, does not mean we are silent or stop believing the truth of Scripture. We don’t give up the doctrines of grace to keep peace in the family or with friends. John Piper puts it well when he says that we not only have to believe the truth, that it’s not enough even to defend the truth, but we must also contend for the truth. That does not mean, however, that we are to be contentious people by nature. So yes, we are to share what we have learned about God’s sovereign grace with those around us.
However, if we really believe the doctrines of grace, we learn how to be gracious about it. When we remember how long it took us to get past the difficulties we once had with the full biblical picture of divine sovereignty and our enslavement to sin, we can view our non-Reformed friends and family more sympathetically and share the truth with them more graciously. One of the first things a person who is excited about his discovery of the doctrines of grace must learn quickly is to be patient with friends and family. God took time with us to convince us of His sovereignty in salvation. We can trust Him to do the same with those we love.
Psalm 139:16 All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
And the elect were, well, elected their Salvation was there from beofre the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
God will bring His elect to Himself before our appointed death.
Seems it would be more polite and practical not to tell those who are destined for hell...
One question would be, 'can one reject Calvinism but still be a born again Christian'???
“Only the elect will be saved. The elect won’t be lost.
(if your a Calvinist)”
If you’re a Christian, you mean.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
“And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(Joh 6:39-40)
“But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”
(Joh 6:64-65)
“Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one.”
(Joh 10:25-30)
“One question would be, ‘can one reject Calvinism but still be a born again Christian’???”
Considering I was of the Arminian view, and yet was quite saved the way I am now, I don’t see why not. Error will certainly be sorted out after death. Though I’d rather all Christians acknowledge God’s sovereignty in salvation, as many things in the scripture simply cannot be understood without realizing that it is God who saves us, and not some spark of goodness in us that meets God half way.
Apparently 24,000 different ways; and every one of them thinks that their method of handling the viper and biting the head off the rooster is the right one.
“How could someone who was never in any real danger of going to hell be truthfully described as, “having no hope and without God in the world”?”
The reference is to our condition prior to salvation, as we are “by nature” children of wrath, which is changed once we, who were dead in sin (and incapable of faith) were quickened by the Spirit.
“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)”
(Eph 2:1-5)
This is why Paul says that there is no one who is righteous, or who seeks after God or understands God. Not because he was forgetting Christians, but because it really is true for all mankind without the work of the Holy Spirit. Prior to salvation, we are “by nature” the children of wrath, corrupted in both flesh and MIND.
“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.”
(Rom 3:9-11)
We can neither understand God nor believe in Him prior to salvation. The cure then is the work of the Holy Spirit, who “quickens” us in His mercy, without regard for our merits, whether foreseen or possible.
“no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1 Co 12:3).
“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”
(Mat 16:16-17)
This is done not for all mankind, but for part only, whom God elected before the foundation of the world. As Christ says when explaining to the unbelieving Jews the reason why they do not believe:
“But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”
(Joh 6:64-65)
And Paul,
“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
(Rom 9:8-16)
2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Thus salvation is indeed by God’s mercy, and not by man meeting His conditions for salvation. Rather, it is God who causes us to meet His conditions, as Augustine beautifully puts it:
“Can you say, ‘We will first walk in His righteousness, and will observe His judgments, and will act in a worthy way, so that He will give His grace to us’? But what good would you evil people do? And how would you do those good things, unless you were yourselves good? But Who causes people to be good? Only He Who said, ‘And I will visit them to make them good,’ and, ‘I will put my Spirit within you, and will cause you to walk in my righteousness, and to observe my judgments, and do them’ (Ezek.36:27). Are you asleep? Can’t you hear Him saying, ‘I will cause you to walk, I will make you to observe,’ lastly, ‘I will make you to do’? Really, are you still puffing yourselves up? We walk, true enough, and we observe, and we do; but it is God Who He makes us to walk, to observe, to do. This is the grace of God making us good; this is His mercy going before us.”
Augustine - Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, 4:15
What is the reason behind it? Instead of discussing the thread, we now have non-Reformed debating Reformed theology, when the thread itself was on an issue of interest to ourselves only.
Not that it’s that big of a deal, but if the Catholics can have caucus threads where they can discuss their matters without others derailing, or other members the same, it seems odd that this thread does not qualify.
Yes.
24,000?!?
I guess we are streamlining!
““You must preach the gospel to them as if it were life or death, for it really is.”
Not if your (sic) a Calvinist... it’s really NOT life and death.
Only the elect will be saved. The elect won’t be lost.
(if your (sic) a Calvinist)”
Incorrect. It IS REALLY life and death. The means of salvation is also pre-determined, and that is the preaching of the Word. Romans 10 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?
“Incorrect. It IS REALLY life and death.”
No, REALLY it’s not.
Do the elect have any chance of perishing?
Your “means” argument is merely a shell game.
You see, that really doesn’t address my argument.
Sort of, “well, I know this verse over here is true so I can safely ignore these other verses which disagree with me.”
I think you and I are both well-versed enough in the Bible to know that it’s easy to go hunting for texts that seem to support our theology. The problem lies in when your theology is utterly broken by there passages. That should indicate to you that your theology is insufficient.
Being that theology is, after all, the product of the mind of a man, or a group of men, that shouldn’t be too hard to swallow.
Jesus said:
“And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. For it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
That statement utterly breaks Calvinism.
It shows that people have two, equally real, equally possible eternal states. It also shows that the person can effect their eternal state by their choices.
Actually, I think it does.
And I don't see how the passage you provided contradicts my position. Jesus is teaching how dee the sin in us is. In Him we have our rest BTW.
“You see, that really doesn’t address my argument.
Sort of, “well, I know this verse over here is true so I can safely ignore these other verses which disagree with me.”
But yet, this is PRECISELY your argument, as you go on to confess:
“I think you and I are both well-versed enough in the Bible to know that it’s easy to go hunting for texts that seem to support our theology”
Why do you ignore the scripture, merely pointing to another verse hoping that they contradict the rest? You can’t expect me to take your argument seriously, especially when it falls back upon your own head, do you? Furthermore, your argument here is a strawman:
“It shows that people have two, equally real, equally possible eternal states. It also shows that the person can effect their eternal state by their choices.”
It certainly shows that a person must make a choice, but whether a Christian can fail to come to Christ or ever fall away, that is not proven by it.
For the choice aspect, we do not deny that Christians choose, believe, follow and do. This does not touch me, and never can. We simply deny that a man can choose, believe, follow and do, without the grace of God. We also say that the presence of any command does not imply a moral ability within man to follow them. For example, when Christ tells the fellow to “sin no more” (John 5:14), is that something within his power to do? What about in keeping the entirety of the law? Who ever fails to do so is described, according to Paul, as “Cursed,” since “cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them” (Gal 3:10). That’s quite a serious punishment, and the command is given, so, logically, you must have the power to keep the whole law, right? You wouldn’t receive a command you couldn’t possibly keep. Yet, you don’t, and none of us ever can, “for by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Rom 3:20). And
Gal_3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
So you can provide examples of commandments all day long, and I will only keep explaining, as Luther wonderfully did,
“Does it follow from: ‘turn ye’ that therefore you can turn? Does it follow from “’Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart’ (Deut 6.5) that therefore you can love with all your heart? What do arguments of this kind prove, but the ‘free-will’ does not need the grace of God, but can do all things by its own power...But it does not follow from this that man is converted by his own power, nor do the words say so; they simply say: “if thou wilt turn, telling man what he should do. When he knows it, and sees that he cannot do it, he will ask whence he may find ability to do it...”
“when you are finished with all your commands and exhortations ... I’ll write Ro.3:20 over the top of it all”
(On the Bondage of the Will)
If you can choose to believe in Christ by your own free-will, why can you only confess him “but by the Holy Ghost?” If you have the power to believe, then you should be able to believe whether you have the Holy Spirit or not. Yet, you can’t, and you don’t, and you never will, for “no man can come unto me unless it is given unto Him of my Father.”
This is what it looks like to actually address all the scripture, not ignoring every verse you do not like and cannot explain, as you do.
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