Were those who assembled on the Day of Pentecost already believers (saved) before that Day arrived?

Smaller number? I think not. From the RSV:

Acts 2

1	When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
2	And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3	And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them.
4	And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5	Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6	And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
7	And they were amazed and wondered, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
8	And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?
9	Par'thians and Medes and E'lamites and residents of Mesopota'mia, Judea and Cappado'cia, Pontus and Asia,
10	Phryg'ia and Pamphyl'ia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyre'ne, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11	Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God."
12	And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?"
13	But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine."
14	But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
15	For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day;
16	but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17	`And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
18	yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
19	And I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20	the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and manifest day.
21	And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'
22	"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know --
23	this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.
24	But God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.
25	For David says concerning him, `I saw the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26	therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; moreover my flesh will dwell in hope.
27	For thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades, nor let thy Holy One see corruption.
28	Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou wilt make me full of gladness with thy presence.'
29	"Brethren, I may say to you confidently of the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30	Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne,
31	he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
32	This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.
33	Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear.
34	For David did not ascend into the heavens; but he himself says, `The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand,
35	till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet.'
36	Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."
37	Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
38	And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39	For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
40	And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."
41	So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
42	And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
43	And fear came upon every soul; and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44	And all who believed were together and had all things in common;
45	and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need.
46	And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts,
47	praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

**John 20.......:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. ..It seems Jesus had already given them the Holy Spirit**

That was a command to them to receive it. That didn’t happen until Pentecost (Acts 2)

Luke 24:47-49 “..And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my NAME (see Acts 2:38) among ALL nations, BEGINNING at Jerusalem. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but TARRY YE in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high”.

Acts 1:4-8 And...not depart from Jerusalem, but “wait for the promise of the Father, which,” saith he, “ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy ghost not many days hence.”.....”But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you....”.

Paul, speaking to the church in Rome (people that already knew the plan of salvation and how to be born again) said, “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his”. Romans 8:9

I hadn’t thought of that. However the verb “receive” is in the aorist imperative active voice, which according to the Zodhiates means: “the aorist imperative denotes a command (yes), request (no), or entreaty(no). Unlike the present imperative it does not invoke a command ... for continuous or repetitive action. Instead it is often used for general exhortations and for things that must begin at that very moment.

Given the tense of the verb, and the context, I think it is quite clear they received the Holy Spirit as he spoke the words. Of course I’m no Greek expert.

I’m a long time Baptist, so in some ways your explanation might be convenient, but as yet I don’t think a careful study supports it.

That doesn't contradict what I said at all -- the first few verses imply that the tongues of fire anointed those already gathered "in one place" in Christ's name and fellowship. Then (starting in verse 6), they began to witness to the multitude in the city, saving/converting the three thousand.

OK, I guess I’m not following you. In your first post it seemed to me you were saying the command to receive the Holy Spirit was given while Jesus was here, but that it didn’t occur until Pentecost. I replied that seemed difficult according to the Greek. Then you reply with what I interpret to mean you think there is a time gap between 5 and 6 in Acts, and that they received the Holy Spirit when Jesus was still present. But verse one of Acts makes that a difficult interpretation.

So I think I’m just missing what you are trying to tell me and I would like to understand.

I would put it this way:

Jesus spoke to his disciples on more than one occasion after the resurrection about the Holy Spirit, and their assignment in the kingdom work. On one occasion, he commands them to receive the Holy Spirit, which happened immediately. On another occasion, probably nearer the end, he gives them instructions to wait for the promise of the father before beginning their public ministry. Then he departs and they wait for Pentecost, and then receive the Holy Spirit again.

So perhaps you could correct my timeline to make it agree with what you think occurred, and then we can start discussing from the same starting point.

**the aorist imperative denotes a command (yes),**

It was a command alright, but there was no indication that they received the Spirit at that moment. Nevertheless, they would definitely receive the gift of the Spirit in the near future, fulfilling the Lord’s command. And why would he command them to tarry in Jerusalem for the promised Spirit if they already had it?

Jesus Christ told Nicodemas that he needed to be born of water, and of the Spirit, explaining the “the wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou HEAREST the SOUND thereof, but CANST NOT tell whence it cometh, or whither it goeth: so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit”. John 3:8

He also taught that “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receivce: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified) John 7:38,39

He told his disciples that “..if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you: but if I depart, I will SEND him unto you.” John 16:7

Well, he ascended up to heaven, and a few weeks later the Holy Ghost was indeed sent; and his church established.

OK - I’m pretty sure I understand what you are trying to say.

Here are some things I think make that interpretation difficult, but not necessarily impossible.

1) in John 20:22, it says he breathed on them, and said to them, receive ye the holy spirit. Obviously the breathing on them happened at the time Jesus was speaking, so it makes for awkward interpretation, just reading the verse, that the receiving of the holy ghost was to occur many days in the future. The easiest interpretation of the verse is that Jesus breathed on them and then immediately they received the holy spirit. The greek verb tense also supports this. There is no command to wait in Jerusalem at this point, because they will be in Galilee in John 21.

2) after this, In John 21, Jesus appeared to them in Galilee

3) Most, if not all of the quotes that refer to the coming of the holy spirit at pentecost, (acts 1:4, luke 24:49) tell the disciples to tarry in jerusalem and wait for the promise of the father. This clearly occurred after the first John 20 incident, since they went to Galilee after John 20 and before acts:4 and luke 24:49.

So if I approach it without preconceived notions the easiest interpretation is:
1) Jesus breathed on them and they received the holy spirit
2) They went to galilee and met jesus there
3) They came back to Jerusalem and met Jesus again before he ascended. Here he gave them the command to tarry and wait for the Holy Spirit again. This second event seems in context to be associated with the power to minister.

I can see your point, but I can’t get it from reading the scriptures unless I start with the premise there is only one occurrence. The plain reading with two occurrences is still easier for me to fit to the text.

**The easiest interpretation of the verse is that Jesus breathed on them and then immediately they received the holy spirit.**

But, the passage doesn’t say they immediately received the Spirit. That’s ‘interpretting’ the situation. Jesus reaffirms in Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:8 what is actually prophecy in John 20:22

Jesus commanded them in Matthew 28:19 to “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,.....”. They did ‘go’, but not immediately; they tarried for days in Jerusalem because they were told by the Lord before he ascended that they would “be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” And that they “shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you..”. Acts 1:5,8

**The plain reading with two occurrences is still easier for me to fit to the text.**

The command wasn’t immediately followed by a recorded occurrance. The occurrance happened days later, fulfilling a command that was also a prophecy. Here’s some plain reading: The command in Luke 18:42 IS followed by an occurrance in verse 43: “Receive thy sight.....And immediately he received his sight...”.

**The easiest interpretation of the verse is that Jesus breathed on them and then immediately they received the holy spirit.**

But, the passage doesn’t say they immediately received the Spirit. That’s ‘interpretting’ the situation. Jesus reaffirms in Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:8 what is actually prophecy in John 20:22

Jesus commanded them in Matthew 28:19 to “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,.....”. They did ‘go’, but not immediately; they tarried for days in Jerusalem because they were told by the Lord before he ascended that they would “be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” And that they “shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you..”. Acts 1:5,8

**The plain reading with two occurrences is still easier for me to fit to the text.**

The command wasn’t immediately followed by a recorded occurrance. The occurrance happened days later, fulfilling a command that was also a prophecy. Here’s some plain reading: The command in Luke 18:42 IS followed by an occurrance in verse 43: “Receive thy sight.....And immediately he received his sight...”.

The Old Testament describes many, many, many believers prior to the Incarnation (the First Coming).

After the Cross, we have a new mystery revealed, namely, the Bride of Christ, the Church. A body of believers indwelt by God the Holy Spirit who form that Bride of Christ.

Old Testament believers were not so indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, but some were imbued with the Spirit.

In the Church Age, believers, both Hebrew and Gentile, are grafted into the tree.

After the Church Age, Hebrew believers will be indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, in the Millennium.

Between the 2, after the Rapture, and the Great Apostasy, the Restrainer will be removed out from the believers, but there still will remain believers.

After the Church Age

There is discernment between having a new human spirit, made alive by God, and being indwelt by God the Holy Spirit. The indwelling uses the human spirit as a dwelling place and is determined by God’s Volition, also called His Sovereignty, not by ours.

Believers are those with faith in what God provides. God decides where He dwells.

Doctrines of the Shekinah Glory, the Tabernacle, and Indwelling of the Holy Spirit apply.

We both agree Jesus, before he ascended, told his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit.

The only disagreement I see is over the passage in John 20:22 that is apparently not clear enough to provide convincing evidence about what it says.

You believe it says
1) generally a prophetic pronouncement of the holy spirit being given at Pentecost
2) Breathing is present tense and occurred as Jesus was speaking
3) Receive is prophetic even though it is not a future tense verb
4) Because it doesn’t say “immediately” after “receive”, the best interpretation is that it is a future promise.

I still think it is easier to interpret as they received the Holy Spirit then, and then again at Pentecost.

You can guess my reasons
1) breathing on them. I rather expect Adam awoke as soon as God breathed the breathe of life into him in Gen2:7. Not that God breathed the breathe of life in him and he awoke 10 days later (that complicates 6 days of creation). It doesn’t say he woke immediately, but I think most people would assume even though it isn’t stated that God breathed and Adam immediately awoke.

2) Receive is a tense that is more likely to indicate something starting immediately rather than in the future. If Jesus meant it to be prophetic, he could have used a future tense verb.

3) The places where it discusses waiting in Jerusalem for the promise of the spirit is obviously a different meeting with the disciples, since they went to galilee after this occurrence.

I wouldn’t hazard a guess as to why it seems they received the spirit twice, unless it was for different purposes. I certainly believe every new testament believer is indwelled with the holy spirit when they are saved. That being said I see very few that live with the same kind of courage and power displayed by the disciple after pentecost.

Whether of not we discuss speaking in tongues or other supernatural manifestations is not really that important to me. The fact I see few believers that live according to promises like “sin shall have no dominion over you” or “greater works than these ye shall do” worries me more. I’m just saying I see these as the exception rather than the rule, and I’ve often wondered why the average baptist for instance seems so impotent of God’s power in their life, in spite of being indwelled.