Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Call Him 'The God Father': Husband and Dad Will Become Catholic Priest -- and Take Vow of Celibacy
The New York Daily News ^ | 1/24/13 | Corky Siemaszko

Posted on 01/27/2013 12:31:22 PM PST by marshmallow

John Cornelius, who is married, will be ordained this weekend -- and sex-free life begins

John Cornelius will be ordained a Roman Catholic priest this weekend — and with the blessing of his wife they're giving up their sex life. Cornelius, a father of three, will become the first married Roman Catholic priest in New York — and Sharyl, his wife of 33-years, has agreed to the whole celibacy thing.

“We have decided to do that voluntarily,” Cornelius told WGRZ-TV. “I have always had friends that are Roman Catholic priests and I appreciate what they've given up to serve God and the priesthood.”

Cornelius, 64, is a former Episcopalian priest who converted three years ago to Catholicism. He said his old church had gotten too liberal for him.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 301-305 next last
The usual slack-jawed amazement from the media at the idea of continence.

Two Catholic takes on the story:

Buffalo’s married priest says he will stop having sex (The Deacon's Bench)

Dcn. John Cornelius and his wife Sheryl are doing a praiseworthy thing (In the Light of the Law)

1 posted on 01/27/2013 12:31:30 PM PST by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Oh come on, what’s he giving up... Everybody knows that the sex stops when you get married.


2 posted on 01/27/2013 12:38:50 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad (Impeach Sen Quinn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Oh come on, what’s he giving up... Everybody knows that the sex stops when you get married.


3 posted on 01/27/2013 12:38:51 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad (Impeach Sen Quinn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Oh come on, what’s he giving up... Everybody knows that the sex stops when you get married.


4 posted on 01/27/2013 12:39:00 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad (Impeach Sen Quinn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

I’ve heard of a few convert Catholic priests who can have relations with their wives until she dies, but then can’t remarry. Does anyone know if Cornelius is taking a vow or a promise or is this something he can voluntarily go back on with no sin involved?


5 posted on 01/27/2013 12:48:07 PM PST by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

“Buffalo’s married priest says he will stop having sex”

So many punchlines here.


6 posted on 01/27/2013 12:48:15 PM PST by sagar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Somehow, I have a feeling that Fr. Cornelius will have very few penitents going to confession with him.


7 posted on 01/27/2013 12:53:06 PM PST by 353FMG ( I refuse to specify whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Not having sex in a marriage is unBiblical, except by agreement, for a short time, for prayer.


8 posted on 01/27/2013 1:09:16 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow
Not slack jawed at the idea of continent, but this seems to me a perversion of the whole concept of marriage.

Could he not have been ordained as a priest in one of the Eastern Catholic Churches, and if so, would continence still have been expected? I know outside of the US it is not, but I think there are special circumstances for Eastern Catholic priests in the United States.

9 posted on 01/27/2013 1:09:50 PM PST by FredZarguna (PA:The right of citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

Indeed.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%207:1-11&version=KNOX

However, I do respect those who live chaste lives in our sex-obsessed society. I wonder if married Anglican and other Protestant priests who become Roman Catholic have to follow the celibacy rule as well?


10 posted on 01/27/2013 1:27:41 PM PST by ReformationFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: MDLION

Married Catholic clergy do not take a vow or make a promise to be continent. We make a promise of conditional celibacy in that if our wives pre-decease us then we must remain celibate and cannot remarry.

If Deacon Cornelius is making a promise to be continent after ordination, then that is entirely of his own initiative - and all the more praiseworthy because of it. He would have to have his wife’s agreement in this, of course.

If they subsequently decided that they could not live continently, he would not be breaking any of the Church’s laws, therefore, it would be no more sinful than breaking any other promise. However, the prospect of breaking a promise we make to God should make any of us pause before making such promises without due care and consideration.


11 posted on 01/27/2013 1:29:25 PM PST by Deacon Augustine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: 353FMG

Why not? My confessor is a married priest and he always has long lines of people waiting at his Confessional. The rules about the Seal of Confession will apply just as much to him as to any other priest.

For his sake, I just hope that his Confessional is quite roomy! ;)


12 posted on 01/27/2013 1:30:00 PM PST by Deacon Augustine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

13 posted on 01/27/2013 1:33:12 PM PST by narses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

**Cornelius, 64, is a former Episcopalian priest who converted three years ago to Catholicism.**

We also have a convert to the Catholic faith from the Episcopal Church. His wife and his grown children were present at his ordination — which I attended.

People just need to accept the fact that the Catholic Church is different!

God bless him and his family.


14 posted on 01/27/2013 2:00:02 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

Many Saints in heaven agreed to live mutually celibate and respectful lives with their spouses. I know of one whose body is incorrupt.

Why do you throw stones?


15 posted on 01/27/2013 2:02:39 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow
CELIBACY AND THE PRIESTHOOD - 30 Questions and Answers
Call Him 'The God Father': Husband and Dad Will Become Catholic Priest -- and Take Vow of Celibacy
Pope Denounces Dissident Priests on Celibacy

Study: Homosexuality, celibacy didn't cause abuse (Catholic Church)
Celibacy is Cry to The Secularized World that God is Present, States Cardinal
Cardinal Kasper: I Was Never Against Priestly Celibacy [Catholic Caucus]
Cardinal Lehman Attacks Cardinal Brandmüller's Letter in Defense of Celibacy
Cardinal Piacenza's Address to Priestly Celibacy Congress
As a Young Priest Benedict XVI ‘Called For The Church to Investigate Priestly Celibacy’
A Catholic Bishop Looks Back Gratefully on 87 Years of Celibacy
Pope's Q-and-A at End of Priestly Year (Pt 3) "Celibacy...Is a Great Sign of Faith" Catholic Caucus]
Pope rethinks, clarifies and reinforces celibacy, asserts Vatican analyst
The Pope "Rethinks" Clerical Celibacy. In Order to Reinforce It

Priestly Meeting Shows "Beauty" of Celibacy
Celibacy is Nonsense...
Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven. The Argument over Celibacy
Does Celibacy Contribute to Clerical Sex Abuse?
A “Celibacy Problem”? Catholic-Bashing, NAMBLA and the Dalai Lama
Vatican: DON'T blame it on celibacy
Is Priestly Celibacy Psychologically Dangerous? (Catholic Caucus)
No Greater Love: Speakers Say Celibacy Mirrors Jesus' Love For All
5 Arguments for Priestly Celibacy
5 Arguments Against Priestly Celibacy and How to Refute Them

The Charism of Celibacy and Concupiscence
Radio Replies First Volume - Celibacy
Provision for Anglicans published, celibacy question answered
Vatican Holds Line on Celibacy for Anglican Rebels [Apostolic Constitution published today]
Celibacy and the Priesthood
Cardinal Levada: no “celibacy issue” in reception of Anglicans into Catholic Church
Celibacy Issue Holds Up Apostolic Constitution
The Jewel of Celibacy
TENDENCY FOR PRIESTS IS TOWARD CELIBACY, SAYS EGYPTIAN BISHOP
Bad Examples Do Not Invalidate The Value of Priestly Celibacy, Says Bishop

Married [converts] priests inspire flock Why Can't (Roman) Catholic Priests Get Married?
Priestly Celibacy: Yes, it is Apostolic [Ecumenical]
Roman Catholic Priests the Case For:
Married man considers turn as Catholic priest
Angelo Roncalli (Pope John XXIII) and Priestly Celibacy
Ukrainian cardinal says married men not answer to vocations crisis
The Nature of Priestly Ordination: Theological Background and Some Present Concerns
Married man considers turn as Catholic priest
Why Celibacy? [Catholic Caucus]

Messori: Married priests no remedy for “vocations crisis”
Married Priests Back Celibacy (Part 1 of 2)
Should Catholic priests have the right to marry?
On Priests, Marriage and the Sacraments
Vatican Said (Again!) Not Revising Celibacy Rule
Pope, Curia Aides Reaffirm Value of Priestly Celibacy (detailed Vatican response)
Vatican Reaffirms Celibacy for Priests
The Gift: A Married Priest Looks at Celiba[cy]
Jesuit defends priestly celibacy (a lengthy but worthy read)
Ex-Lutheran bishop found Catholic rock: Joseph Jacobson to be ordained Catholic priest by Christmas

New, stricter Priestly Formation Program issued for U.S. Catholic seminaries
Long Journey to Rome (Former Southern Baptist Pastor Now a Traveling Crusader for Catholic Church)
That sneaky desperate Catholic Church is at it again
Following the Signs (to a priestly vocation)
Another One Takes the Plunge [swims the Tiber]
Getting It Right:The Foundation of Friendship (What can a celibate priest really teach us about love
Married, ex-Episcopalian ordained a Catholic priest in California
The biblical foundation of priestly celibacy
Why Not Married Priests? The Case for Clerical Celibacy
(Catholic) Church makes a clear distinction between chastity and celibacy, says Priest

5 Arguments Against Priestly Celibacy and How to Refute Them
Married Priests Aren’t the Answer (a seminarian states his view)
Synod Affirms Priestly Celibacy
Vatican synod rules out married priests (for Latin Church)
Priest shortage stems from crisis of faith, ignorance of the infinite, not celibacy, say Bishops [at Synod]
Cardinal Pell: Ending Celibacy Rule Would Be a Blunder
Patriarch of Venice deemphasizes ordination of married men to the priesthood
Ordination of married men is raised at Vatican synod
Defending Chastity in the Priesthood
ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUSA PRIEST

The Catholic Church - East-West Difference Over Priestly Celibacy
Spain (R) Catholic Church ordains first married priest
Spain gets first married priest
From Anglican to married Catholic priest
Vatican Prepares Draft Directives Against Admitting Gays as Priests
More (Priestly) Celibacy, Not Less
An Unneeded Headache (Vatican document on [NOT] admitting homosexual to the priesthood)
Fathers, Husbands and Rebels: Married Priests
Cardinal says Priests will marry
Yes, Gay Men Should Be Ordained

A small, sturdy band of 'John Paul priests'(JPII legacy of conservative priests)
40% of Scots priests want end to celibacy
Is it time to ordain married men to the Catholic priesthood?
Saying Yes to God: a Look into Vocations
New Vatican Document to Eliminate 1961 Papal Ban on Ordaining Homosexuals
Saying Yes to God: a Look into Vocations
Married Priests? The English Experience
Alternative Priests´ Council Hits Back on Mandatory Celibacy
Catholic priests urge Church to reconsider celibacy rules
Catholic priests demand the right to marry

New Vatican Document on Homosexuality and the Priesthood Coming Before Fall 2005
Why A Married Priesthood Won't Remedy the Priest Shortage
5 Arguments Against (Catholic) Priestly Celibacy and How to Refute Them
Fr. Shannon Collins Discusses Celibacy
For Priests, Celibacy Is Not the Problem
John Paul II Hails "Inestimable Value" of Priestly Celibacy
The (Catholic) Church Has Always Prospered When Celibacy Is Honored
Call To Action: Dump Celibacy
Celibacy Defended by EWTN's Fr. Levis
Celibacy Will Save the Priesthood

Celibacy is gift cherished by church
Archbishop Dolan:"We Need to Be Renewing Our Pledge to Celibacy, Not Questioning It"
The gift of Priestly celibacy as a sign of the charity of Christ, by Mother Teresa of Calcutta
A response to Fr. Joseph Wilson's defense of mandatory celibacy
Bishop Attacks Move to End Celibacy
Vatican Says Celibacy Rule Nonnegotiable
God’s call to celibacy for the sake of His Kingdom - by Card. George
Tracing the Glorious Origins of Celibacy
Celibacy
Priestly Celibacy Reflects Who - and Whose - We Are[Father George W.Rutler]

How to Refute Arguments Against Priestly Celibacy
Priestly Celibacy And Its Roots In Christ
The celibate superhero
Don't end celibacy for priests
Giving Thanks for the Good Shepherds ( A Defense of Priestly Celibacy)
Pope: Priests Must Stay Celibate
Celibacy s history of power and money
Celibacy of the priesthood is a church strength, not a liability
Catholic Scandals: A Crisis for Celibacy?
Has the Time Come to Consider Making Celibacy Truly Optional In the Western Church?

16 posted on 01/27/2013 2:05:34 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ReformationFan

Most people who live chaste lives live them because they do not have a great desire to have sex with others in the first place. Many are not priests either, it’s just the kind of person they are. And there are several main reasons for it.

This is why we see the problems of forcing people with a normal libido into an unnatural permanent state of celibacy, and they look for an outlet of that desire and energy they have to suppress.

There is no biblical reason for leaders in the Christian church to not be married. Paul says he wishes more could be, but that is not a command you must be. The only place where this is required to be a leader is the Roman Catholic denomination. And they haven’t done themselves any favors by reducing excellent candidates out of potential great ministerial positions because they are honest that they can’t be celibate. So you get the pedophiles, the rapists, and the gays, or any hodgepodge of the above, in positions of authority over others, attempting to lecture them about morals while they and their archbishops do everything they can to cloak their own sins from the congregations.

And yes you can find married pastors and such that are into perversion, it’s not exclusive to the Roman church and we’ve never said that only they have the problem. But what you can’t find are churches who once discovered, won’t get rid of them, won’t shuffle them off to another unsuspecting church in their area. They get fired, they get prosecuted. The congregations get rid of them, they have the power to do so. Not so in the Roman Catholic churches. The Roman church because of its structure has systemically hid this from people, denied it was occurring, settled agreements only under vows of silence that those affected couldn’t mention it to anyone, moved people around they knew had problems and did not warn the parishes these problem priests were coming to. It’s the coverup and denial there even were problems being covered up.

We expect this kind of behavior from secular society, from worldly people, the unsaved, those still under control of the ruler of this world. What we don’t expect is this behavior from people in the church. Running the church. In positions of authority over others. That’s what makes it worse. At the same time condemning others for their little failings. That’s the problem.


17 posted on 01/27/2013 2:57:30 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man

Oh I’m a strong Protestant who believes the sexual requirement for all Christians(clergy and laity alike) is either keep it in marriage(as Jesus defined it in Matthew 19:4-6, not as our perverted, sinful society is redefining it) or chastity, no exceptions. In analyzing how Rome keeps married men out of the priesthood I find it an interesting contrast to what I find in the Evangelical Protestant world I inhabit. If a young man wants to be a minister here, he better make sure he’s either got a wife or is about to get one. Otherwise, most Bible believing churches wouldn’t even consider hiring him.


18 posted on 01/27/2013 3:11:32 PM PST by ReformationFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Pikachu_Dad

of course how much he is giving up is a function of what his wife looks like.

Might be real easy.

I cannot imagine letting people know about this very private decision.


19 posted on 01/27/2013 3:24:33 PM PST by Chickensoup (200 million unarmed people killed in the 20th century by Leftist Totalitarian Fascists)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion; FredZarguna; Deacon Augustine; ReformationFan; Secret Agent Man; metmom; ...
Not having sex in a marriage is unBiblical, except by agreement, for a short time, for prayer.

You mean just because

• God/Christ describes marriage as "cleaving" and becoming one flesh, (Gn. 2:24; Mt. 19:4,5)

• and there is no example of celibate marriage anywhere in Scripture btwn two adults able to procreate,

• and celibacy for such is only advocated in the context of being single, (Mt. 19:10-12; 1Cor. 7:8)

• and Paul restricts abstinence to only a period of fasting, and then to come together again,

• and teaches that celibacy is a gift, (1Cor. 7:1,7)

• and in no way evidences that all clergy are presumed to have it,

• but instead lists marriage and raising children as normal credentials for ministry "(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?" - 1 Timothy 3:5)

then you think mandating celibacy for priests (not to mention that is never what pastors are distinctively titled by the Holy Ghost) is uinBiblical?

But when did Scripture become the supreme authority for Rome,

or when was Scriptural warrant necessary for doctrine (or even reasons behind infallible decrees held as necessarily infallible)

or when did anything Scripture say have authority unless Rome interpreted thusly?

Yet as some attempt must be made (in condescension to pesky Protestants) by RCAs to provide some sort of Scriptural warrant for traditions of men, you have forgotten that they are endowed with a amazing gift of extrapolating what is needed to provide some Scriptural warrant (like 1 Cor. 3 as teaching purgatory )

Thus, out of, "this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none," (1 Corinthians 7:29) is extrapolated support for lifelong celibacy; which, to be consistent, means that Christians can no longer show weeping, or rejoicing, or use things they possess, (1Cor. 7:30), rather than just living in consecration and holiness as the Lord enjoined, (Lk. 21:34) not preoccupied with cares of this life, and in which fasting and sexual relations can both be enjoined to, and marriage bed be declared undefiled. (Heb. 13:4)

And it is a standard and safe rule in exegesis to interpret the unclear texts in the light of the clear.

However, as other sola ecclesia groups go to extremes, with the LDS exalting sex above which is written, Catholics have gone to the other extreme, and in so doing exampled more exegetical errors, even holding that all marital relations are unclean, as they could not be effected without the ardour of lust, this being carnal concupiscence, though it is “no longer accounted sin in the regenerate."

Jerome (engaging in a false dilemma) reasoned that since 1Cor. 7:1 says "it is good not to touch a woman, [then] it is bad to touch one: for there is no opposite to goodness but badness." And that since men must always pray, ministers could not be married, and invoked Genesis 7 as proving that "two is not a good number because it destroys unity, and prefigures the marriage compact." (More: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2966953/posts?page=311#311)

All this is not meant to demean celibacy in consecration toward God, nor must this particular priest be celibate (Rome makes allowances for those who enter the priest hood married), but refutes the idea that it should be presumed that those called to ministry normally have the gift of celibacy. That is simply presumptuous and asking for trouble.

20 posted on 01/27/2013 3:29:10 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
John Cornelius will be ordained a Roman Catholic priest this weekend — and with the blessing of his wife they're giving up their sex life. Cornelius, a father of three, will become the first married Roman Catholic priest in New York — and Sharyl, his wife of 33-years, has agreed to the whole celibacy thing.

You're right, but she is agreeable.

She's willing to give up their sex life with her blessing......

I'm not going to comment.

21 posted on 01/27/2013 3:34:52 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; aMorePerfectUnion

How does pointing out what Scripture says qualify as *throwing stones*?


22 posted on 01/27/2013 3:37:41 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

Thank you for putting that so well.


23 posted on 01/27/2013 3:40:43 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man

“The Roman church because of its structure has systemically hid this from people, denied it was occurring, settled agreements only under vows of silence that those affected couldn’t mention it to anyone, moved people around they knew had problems and did not warn the parishes these problem priests were coming to. It’s the coverup and denial there even were problems being covered up.”

These things have occurred not because of the structure of the Church, but rather because it has had some very evil bishops who have conspired to protect perverts and cover up their crimes.

Many bishops have been very straight in the way they have governed their dioceses and perpetrators immediately referred to the police. Unfortunately the good governance of a diocese does not make for good headlines in the MSM.

One thing that really does frustrate me is that when bad bishops have been involved in cover-ups, the secular authorities very rarely take action against them. A lot of these bishops should be in prison along with the perverts whose crimes they have facilitated.

However, in the UK, we are now finding that similar situations pertain in other organizations. The BBC has sheltered and facilitated celebrity paedophiles for years. The police are now hunting down the perverts, but nothing seems to be happening about those who facilitated them. Why?


24 posted on 01/27/2013 3:47:51 PM PST by Deacon Augustine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Sex in marriage is a gift from God, becoming one flesh.
To not have sex is un-Biblical.


25 posted on 01/27/2013 4:05:01 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man; metmom; ReformationFan
There is no biblical reason for leaders in the Christian church to not be married. Paul says he wishes more could be, but that is not a command you must be.

Well, let's not forget the "First Pope" was married.

"And when Jesus entered Peter’s house, he saw his mother-in-law lying sick with a fever." (Matthew 8:14)

Now I'm sure Rome will give us the usual blather that somehow this was an aberration and why later the Roman Catholic Church, through some spiritual hocus-pocus, divined some reason priests shouldn't marry. But the fact is. Peter was married.

26 posted on 01/27/2013 4:15:52 PM PST by Gamecock ( If we distort the gospel, that distortion will influence and affect everything else that we believe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man
Chastity is not abstinence. Chastity is the practice of lawful sexual relations. For Christians of all denominations that means abstinence for single people, but for married people it means fidelity.
27 posted on 01/27/2013 4:16:18 PM PST by FredZarguna (PA:The right of citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
"Why do you throw stones?"

Stating what God said through the Apostle Paul is not throwing stones. If you believe that, you have greater problems than the unbiblical choice of a priest.

28 posted on 01/27/2013 4:30:42 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: metmom

“You’re right, but she is agreeable.

“She’s willing to give up their sex life with her blessing......

And that says volumes - that there are TWO people who don’t obey the Bible, but are going to function as priests in the Catholic Church.


29 posted on 01/27/2013 4:33:29 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
>> I know of one whose body is incorrupt.<<

I’d like to see proof of that one.

30 posted on 01/27/2013 4:56:38 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: metmom; Secret Agent Man; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww

One only need look to paganism to understand where the idea for celibate priests came from.


31 posted on 01/27/2013 5:06:05 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup
of course how much he is giving up is a function of what his wife looks like. Might be real easy.

Course, it works both ways.

She is willing and giving it her blessing.....

32 posted on 01/27/2013 5:08:23 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: metmom

She is willing and giving it her blessing.....

_______________________________

I cannot begin to understand thse people.


33 posted on 01/27/2013 5:31:57 PM PST by Chickensoup (200 million unarmed people killed in the 20th century by Leftist Totalitarian Fascists)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; aMorePerfectUnion
Many Saints in heaven agreed to live mutually celibate and respectful lives with their spouses.

Well, that's not too hard as there is no sex in heaven. Except for false Mormon doctrine.

I know of one whose body is incorrupt.

Well of course, that is Jesus.

Why do you throw stones?

Expressing a Biblical truth is throwing stones?

Can you produce a scripture disputing what the poster said?

If not, who is throwing stones here?

Here is the statement : "Not having sex in a marriage is unBiblical, except by agreement, for a short time, for prayer."

Most Christians familiar with the Bible have some knowledge of that scriptural fact.

34 posted on 01/27/2013 5:53:47 PM PST by Syncro ("So?" - Andrew Breitbart The King of All Media (RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Syncro

LOL!

This was while they were on earth. There is always a higher purpose — loving God.


35 posted on 01/27/2013 5:58:54 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
Oh I see, it wasn't that clear.

Care to comment on my other questions/statements?

36 posted on 01/27/2013 6:35:33 PM PST by Syncro ("So?" - Andrew Breitbart The King of All Media (RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup

Beats me......


37 posted on 01/27/2013 6:36:45 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212

daniel1212”unBiblical”

The Bible wasn’t completed until about the year 120, about 90 years after Jesus’ Death. For about 400 years after this it floated around mostly by word of mouth. A few Bibles after this started by written by hand, but were mostly in the hands of Churches because it was such a painstaking process. The first printed Bible came out in 1456. The verses were added in 1560. Since most Christians for most of the time after Jesus didn’t have access to a Bible, have most Christians throughout history been “unBiblical”? Most Christians for most of history followed the voice of the Church. And wasn’t it the Catholic Church guided by the Holy Spirit that settled on the books of the Bible in the first place? When I’ve discussed these things with Protestants, they inevitably say the early Christians followed the Holy Spirit. But what happens when disagreements pop up. Peter and Paul disagreed. Following the Spirit without the Pope leads to what we have today, the scandal of 40,000 Christian denominations. Jesus wants us to be one with Him and the Father.


38 posted on 01/27/2013 6:36:58 PM PST by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Let’s follow this line of “reasoning”......

So, if not having sex for a higher purpose is good, and that higher purpose purpose is loving God, does that mean that couples who do have sex don’t love God as much?


39 posted on 01/27/2013 6:39:18 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

The Catholic church sends mixed messages.

On one hand it highly esteems celibacy, treating sex as if it’s bad, and on the other hand, lauds large families, which only come from one activity last I checked.


40 posted on 01/27/2013 6:42:13 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: metmom

I know of a family that has adopted, I believe, six children, in addition to their biolgoical children.

Ever hear of adoption?


41 posted on 01/27/2013 7:35:56 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: metmom

**The Catholic church sends mixed messages.**

Ever hear of loving God above all things?


42 posted on 01/27/2013 7:36:56 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: ReformationFan
ReformationFan wrote:

you should consider changing your tag line to "revolution fan" because the "reformation " reformed nothing.

you cannot reform from the outside, only those who remain within the group can reform. When you choose to leave the group, you beome a revolutionary.

the protestant revolution was based on those who chose to follow false "prophets" like Luther, Wesley, Calvin Zwingley, Henry VIII, etc.

they were wrong then....they still are.

43 posted on 01/27/2013 7:54:54 PM PST by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
And that says volumes - that there are TWO people who don’t obey the Bible,

Mary and Joseph did...are they too in violation of the Bible????

44 posted on 01/27/2013 7:59:32 PM PST by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: MDLION

“The Bible wasn’t completed until about the year 120, about 90 years after Jesus’ Death. For about 400 years after this it floated around mostly by word of mouth...Since most Christians for most of the time after Jesus didn’t have access to a Bible, have most Christians throughout history been “unBiblical””

ALL Gospels and Epistles were circulated and read aloud as part of worship gatherings in local Churches - this was in addition to 2/3s of revelation existing before the Church began.

In addition, God gave the Church Pastors, Teachers and Elders, as a gift of the Holy Spirit. They functioned from the beginning and continue to function today.

As such, your statement is incorrect. Christians from the beginning of the Church have had Scriptural Truth and were taught to apply it. There have always been those who ignore the truth, despite having it - like the newly minted sexless priest.

“Following the Spirit without the Pope leads to what we have today, the scandal of 40,000 Christian denominations. Jesus wants us to be one with Him and the Father.”

The Pope is unnecessary to Biblical unity - and unnecessary to the Church, since Pope is not a Biblical office.

Jesus’ prayer for our unity was based on being kept in the truth and on our love for all believers - not to denominational identity.


45 posted on 01/27/2013 8:03:22 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: terycarl

“Mary and Joseph did...are they too in violation of the Bible???? “

If Mary and Joseph abstained from sex after the birth of Jesus Christ, they would have circumvented God’s plan for married couples. The Bible has no teaching of perpetual virginity of Mary. Nor are there any writings from the first 100 years AD from the Apostles that teach this.


46 posted on 01/27/2013 8:06:37 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
The Bible has no teaching of perpetual virginity of Mary. Nor are there any writings from the first 100 years AD from the Apostles that teach this.

nor are there any writings against this...The Catholic church teaches it, the Catholic church is infallible, therefore I believe it.

47 posted on 01/27/2013 8:58:12 PM PST by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: terycarl

After Jesus was born Mary and Joseph were just like any other married couple, they had sex, they had children.


48 posted on 01/27/2013 9:24:13 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: MDLION; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; CynicalBear; ...
The Bible wasn’t completed until about the year 120, about 90 years after Jesus’ Death. For about 400 years after this it floated around mostly by word of mouth. A few Bibles after this started by written by hand, but were mostly in the hands of Churches because it was such a painstaking process. The first printed Bible came out in 1456. The verses were added in 1560.

Your argument is a misrepresentation. While it true that the printed Bible came out in the 15th century, which was because Gutenberg only invented the printing press in 1450, that does not equate to or sanction ignorance of Scripture any more than it did in the days of OT, when God commanded the Israelites that they set the "commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded" forever before them, and to "teach them diligently unto thy children," (Dt. 6:1-9) and the righteous man was described as one whose "delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night," (Psalms 1:2) and numerous teachers for long periods "read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading." (Nehemiah 8:8)

This does not mean the majority of the laity were literate, and in fact, unlike such bodies as the MA colonial government who mandated schools so that the populace would not be ignorant of the Scripture, promoting literacy in the Bible did not seem to be a priority form Rome, and she often hindered it.

However, Athanasius of Alexandria ( 298 - 373) listed the complete New Testament canon 27 books for the first time, and the translator Jerome (347 – 420) translated all of the Old and New, while John Chrysostom (347–407) exhorted the laity to "get you at least the New Testament, the Apostolic Epistles, the Acts, the Gospels, for your constant teachers...," and chastens the laity for presuming "the reading of the divine Scriptures" (not simply hearing) appertains to such as monks, while the laity needed it more, and marginalizing them was" far worse than not reading," The context of his of the exhortation in Ephesians is the home life, and on that he says not "hear" but "study the Scriptures," while on Col. 3:16 he exhorts "the reading of the Scriptures and that not to be done lightly, nor in any sort of way, but with much earnestness." More

Thus whether by reading and or hearing, literacy in Scripture was the goal, and it is abundantly evidenced that the Scriptures were the transcendent material standard for obedience and in establishing truth claims, and that the Lord claims of Christ and the apostles were established upon Scriptural attestation in word and in power, not appeal to an assuredly infallible magisterium.

Since most Christians for most of the time after Jesus didn’t have access to a Bible, have most Christians throughout history been “unBiblical”? Most Christians for most of history followed the voice of the Church.

You answered your own question. While not excluding that the body of Christ continued thru some members, as salvation requires more of the heart than the head, (Ps. 34:18) how else would Catholics agree to things from praying the departed to torturing and killing merely theological dissidents, if it were not because Rome has usurped the supernaturally established Scriptures as the supreme authority?

Or is your argument that being the instruments and stewards of Divine revelation mean you are the assuredly infallible interpreters of it, and that no one has spiritual authority apart from their sanction, or in opposition to it?

And wasn’t it the Catholic Church guided by the Holy Spirit that settled on the books of the Bible in the first place?

And when did Rome provide an infallible, indisputable canon of Scripture? And does this mean all those who deviate from this have no legitimacy, or what does it mean?

When I’ve discussed these things with Protestants, they inevitably say the early Christians followed the Holy Spirit. But what happens when disagreements pop up.

And Rome is one church among many who claim that they uniquely followed the Holy Spirit correctly. What is the basis for your full assurance that Rome is the one true church?

Peter and Paul disagreed.

Yes, and they both disagreed with Rome. Tell me where either taught that the office of Peter was assuredly infallible, when speaking according to the infallible *scope and subject-based) criteria of Rome? (And what place in the kingdom of God do those have who disagree with that?)

Where did Peter or Paul refer to Peter as the supreme ruler of the church, or even remind them to pray for Peter as such, or teach that his chair and that of all the apostles were to be formally passed on?

Where did they or anyone example or teach to pray to anyone in heaven but God (without resorting to problematic extrapolation), or distinctively title pastors "priests," or that all clergy (with rare exceptions) were expected to have the gift of celibacy, etc.?

Following the Spirit without the Pope leads to what we have today, the scandal of 40,000 Christian denominations. Jesus wants us to be one with Him and the Father.

I can see that you are new here. In any case since your premise is that dissent from Rome and its pope negates ecclesiastical authenticity, what makes Rome the one true church over other particular sola ecclesia churches which also claim to be the one true church based upon their interpretation of Scripture, history and tradition? Again, what is the basis for your assurance?

Moreover, how can you claim greater unity than other particular churches, especially when Catholics can and do disagree on multiple things , besides the things they are not supposed to but are effectively allowed to (treating even the most liberal as members in life and in death), and her members testify to less unity in core truths and moral views than her evangelical counterparts?

Do you really think organizational structure and paper unity (and unity in error), and which requires implicit assent of faith is superior in quality to the unity of the Spirit resulting from a shared conversion and relationship with the Lord Jesus?

The reality is that there are disagreements and divisions under sola ecclesia as well as sola (or prima) Scriptura (Scripture being supreme), and the difference being in degrees, while the unity of the diverse growing NT church was not based on assured veracity as per Rome, much less her use of the sword, but upon Scriptural substantiation.

And which allows that they will be competition, but overcomes it by "manifestation of the truth in word and in power, (2Cor. 4:2) that it is the church of the living God, which the evangelical gospel has historically manifested far more than its institutionalized counterpart, Catholic or Protestant.

"For the kingdom of God is not in word [self-declaration], but in power. " (1 Corinthians 4:20) And "to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. " (Ecclesiastes 9:4)

As for your 40,000 Christian denominations parroted polemic, see here ,

49 posted on 01/27/2013 9:49:26 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: svcw

No they didn’t. Jesus is an only child. Where are you getting these ideas?

The quotes in the Bible about brothers and sisters refer to brethren or relatives.


50 posted on 01/27/2013 9:56:03 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 301-305 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson