Posted on 01/06/2013 3:56:49 PM PST by NYer
“Because Jesus may have or may not have trusted Peter does not give Peter higher authority that the living Christ.”
Straw man alert!
No one argues that. Or did you think someone was?
Many people on this thread seem to be.
Yeah, no kidding. Peter was the apostle to the Jews. Paul wrote to the Romans naming many among them and ministered among them and not a word about Peter there.
The rest is all second or worse and conjecture. If Catholics believe it was Rome that was referred to in Peter’s writing than they must also agree that Rome is the Babylon of Revelation.
Where, not one post even suggests that. You see straw men.
>> “Did Jesus trust Peter? Of course, Jesus told Peter to tend his sheep, feed his lambs, feed his sheep.” <<
.
That request had nothing whatsoever to do with trust.
Peter was diverging from Yeshua’s commands, and Yeshua was trying to drag him back on course.
Peter often lost his course, but later became a great preacher. There is hope therein for all of us.
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
We do! The ONLY word of God. For instance. Can you show from scripture proof or teaching about the assumption of Mary? Given we take the Bible as the word of God and not the RCC we would like you to show us that teaching from it.
That would be a real stretch, but to reassure you, no CATHOLIC has any doubt - Our Lord is the Head of the Church He founded and the Way, the Truth and the Light.
Didn’t He also say to Peter “get thee behind me Satan”?
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
“Jesus was no longer here on earth in case you haven’t heard......what was Christ going to do just let the faith go leaderless?? REALLY??? “
Have you ever heard of the Holy Spirit? Or read the book of Acts?
always good to cite a Catholic to bolster the Catholic view point....but then there was that small thing called the reformation....
I would suggest that you cannot definitively prove that Christ was talking about Peter in that verse. The verse states:
But even if Peter is referred to as a rock (actually "pebble") you don't WHICH rock Christ was referring to. There are other verses which refer to Christ as the rock including one by Peter:
1Co_10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
1Pe_2:8 and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
Isa_51:1 "Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness, you who seek the LORD: look to the rock from which you were hewn, and to the quarry from which you were dug.
Isa_30:29 You shall have a song as in the night when a holy feast is kept, and gladness of heart, as when one sets out to the sound of the flute to go to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
Isa_17:10 For you have forgotten the God of your salvation and have not remembered the Rock of your refuge; therefore, though you plant pleasant plants and sow the vine-branch of a stranger,
Isa_8:14 And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Psa_144:1 Of David. Blessed be the LORD, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;
Psa_89:26 He shall cry to me, 'You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.'
Psa_92:15 to declare that the LORD is upright; he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
Psa_94:22 But the LORD has become my stronghold, and my God the rock of my refuge.
Psa_95:1 Oh come, let us sing to the LORD; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation!
and others...
The Early Church Fathers believed Christ was the Rock (and his disciples in the church):
"Christ is the Rock, 'For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ,' and He did not refuse to bestow the favour of this title even upon His disciple, so that he, too, might be Peter [or, Rock], in that he has from the Rock a solid constancy, a firm faith." (Expos. in Luc.)-Ambrose
"Let no one then foolishly suppose that the Christ is any other than the only begotten Son. Let us not imagine ourselves wiser than the gift of the Spirit. Let us hear the words of the great Peter, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Let us hear the Lord Christ confirming this confession, for 'On this rock,' He says, 'I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' Wherefore too the wise Paul, most excellent master builder of the churches, fixed no other foundation than this. 'I,' he says, 'as a wise master builder have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.' How then can they think of any other foundation, when they are bidden not to fix a foundation, but to build on that which is laid? The divine writer recognises Christ as the foundation, and glories in this title..." Theodoret Bishop of Cyr [Cyrus] (396-466)
"And this is the rock of confession whereon the Church is built. But the perceptive faculties of flesh and blood cannot attain to the recognition and confession of this truth. It is a mystery, Divinely revealed, that Christ must be not only named, but believed, the Son of God. This faith it is which is the foundation of the Church; through this faith the gates of hell cannot prevail against her. This is the faith which has the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatsoever this faith shall have loosed or bound on earth shall be loosed or bound in heaven. (...) The very reason why he is blessed is that he confessed the Son of God. This is the Father's revelation, this the foundation of the Church, this the assurance of her permanence. Hence has she the keys of the kingdom of heaven, hence judgment in heaven and judgment on earth." Hilary of Poitiers (ca. 315-367/368)
"The one foundation which the apostolic architect laid is our Lord Jesus Christ. Upon this stable and firm foundation, which has itself been laid on solid ground, the Church of Christ is built...For the Church was founded upon a rock...upon this rock the Lord established his Church; and the apostle Peter received his name from this rock (Mt. 16.18)." Jerome (ca. 347-419)
“Catholics have build an entire premise around one tiny word of scripture and what they’ve been told to believe.”
No. 2,100 years of history and practice, starting with the Great Commission - predating the Holy Writ. You need to take off the blinders and actually study the Word and the Truth rather than let itinerant preachers and TV evangelists feed you there snake oil.
Nicely stated, H but alas some hold with the title of this thread.
>>I’ll stick with what God says in the scriptures and ignore the Fairy Tales put out by your religion...<<
What scriptures are you reading?
The New Testament of the Bible did not exist for 300 years after Christ ascended into heaven. And it was assembled by the council of Catholic Bishops under the authority of the Pope in Rome. This was to protect the Truth that Christ taught, and weed out the erroneus teachings and heresies which sprung up almost immediately after Christ ascended.
Christ instructed his disciples to go out and “make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:20) He did not tell them to go out and write a book.
The gospel of John concludes with these words: “There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.” (John 21:24)
These are the reasons that the Catholic Church emphasizes that we must look to both the scriptures and the traditions of the early Christian church to gain a more complete understanding of Christ’s teachings. Read the writings of the early Church Fathers to learn more about these traditions, which included the univeral acceptance of Peter as the Bishop of Rome, and his successors, as the head of His church on earth (all of whom, for the first 300 years, suffered martyrdom for their faith in Christ).
Since the Protestant schism, there are now thousands of contradictary interpretations of the scriptures. This goes against Christ’s prayer that all of His followers would be one, just as He and His Father were one.
So, who is following Christ and who is following “Fairy Tales?” I pray that our Protestant brethren will reconsider the effects of their contrary opinions on the unity Jesus desired for His church.
And there were Jews in Rome to whom Peter preached.
As the "Rock" his seminole declartation of Jesus; "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God," was the point of eternal salvation and the "foundation stone" was this declaration, not the elevation of Peter over any other saint.
The whole thing gets off on the wrong foot without this understanding, and therein a diminuation of the reality of Grace and the expanse of anti-semitism evidenced from the beginning of the Catholic church. JMHO
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