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To: vladimir998

vladimir998, thank you for your answer, I guess, although it came across more a diatribe than a calm, reasoned response. The basic truth is that there were some disparate translations into German, not widely available, of Jerome’s Latin Bible, the Vulgate.

You also wrote:
“Technically all modern Bibles are probably translations of translations or translations of multi-generational copies. There is evidence for instance that Matthew was written in Hebrew or Aramaic. We have no autographs, however. If true, this would mean we only have Greek translations of Matthew.”

Now you are introducing a completely different subject for which you offer no evidence. This is a subject that has been discussed for years and years, but no solid proof has ever been forthcoming. So, it point of fact, you are offering mere speculation to undergird a position you have chosen to take whatever the case may be. Scholarly or agenda driven? Hmmmmm.


106 posted on 08/09/2012 7:40:31 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Belteshazzar; vladimir998; Natural Law; Persevero; spunkets; Iscool
Thank you all for sharing your insights, dear brothers in Christ!

Seems to me there is a cultural difference between Catholic and non-Catholic Christians and Jews with reference to the availability of theological information.

As a modern day example, a few years ago I read about the Catholics reaching out to the Jews for some kind of agreement in their desire to recognize the achievements of the Pope during World War II. The Jews who were appointed to the effort received a great deal of information from the Catholics who were appointed to the effort.

As I recall, the Jews were appreciative of the information but asked that the archives be opened to them so they'd be able to do their own research. But their request was declined and so they withdrew.

My speculation is that the information was simply information to the Jews but that it was sacred to the Catholics. Hence, I would call it a cultural difference.

Likewise, non-Catholic Christians would view all of the information banned by the Council of Trent or, for instance, the writings of Tertullian which have since been lost, as simply information. And the loss of such information might discredit the Vatican in their eyes, i.e. why not preserve moot or adverse witness but for fear?

Culturally, the manuscripts to non-Catholic Christians are simply manuscripts. The power is in the words of God themselves.

But in the eyes of Catholics, I suspect the manuscripts themselves are seen as sacred. Certainly in each Mass I attend, the manuscript containing the Gospel is kissed and held up before it is read. It is treated as though physically a holy object.

But everything happens for a reason. I am confident that it all works together for the good according to God's will.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. - Romans 8:28

I liked the way Einstein put it: "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous."

Still, I'd love to have access to the lost manuscripts. But, alas, the Vatican is not a "Library of Congress" for the theological.

God's Name is I AM.

109 posted on 08/09/2012 9:51:58 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Belteshazzar

You wrote:

“vladimir998, thank you for your answer, I guess, although it came across more a diatribe than a calm, reasoned response.”

Actually, logically, it could only come across to someone that way if he intended to take it that way no matter what.

“The basic truth is that there were some disparate translations into German, not widely available, of Jerome’s Latin Bible, the Vulgate.”

False. As Andrew Gow has shown, translations of the Vulgate were commonly available in late medieval Germany.

“Now you are introducing a completely different subject for which you offer no evidence.”

False. I was correctly your insufficient presentation. I need to present no evidence to correct it since the correction itself shows the your presentation was lacking. Again, you apparently have not done the needed research for the topic (or topics) at hand.

“This is a subject that has been discussed for years and years, but no solid proof has ever been forthcoming.”

It is not needed for my point. Again, as I pointed out, we have no autographs. None. My point, therefore, stands even if Hebrew and Aramaic had not been the original language.

“So, it point of fact, you are offering mere speculation to undergird a position you have chosen to take whatever the case may be. Scholarly or agenda driven? Hmmmmm.”

Truth driven. You have failed in all respects.


111 posted on 08/09/2012 11:03:11 AM PDT by vladimir998
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