Man Facing Jail For Hosting Home Bible Study

FoxNews Radio ^ | 7/6/2012 | Todd Starnes

[gunsequalfreedom]

I hope you are just joking, 15 people, 5 or 6 cars, on over 4 acres, i have 3 pickups 1 car and 1 big mack truck setting at my house plus 2 trailers and have about i acre.

I did not read the story closely. If it is a few cars on a large property, then the city is way out of line. I was think of what this would be like in my neighborhood and I did qualify my comments along those lines. I'll go read the article more closely.

[gunsequalfreedom]

From the story...“Any time you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does — we have concerns...

So does the Chinese government worry about people meeting on a regular basis. I'm going to call the city and talk to them. What's there number?

[lightman]

You mean to say you DIDN’T smear Limberger cheese on the catalytic converters or engine block?

I’m ashamed of you.

[Carriage Hill]

Darnit, where the heck were you back then when we needed some other, better ideas? LOL.

[what's up]

Ah, so do complaints trump religious freedom?

The complaints are also about freedom to drive on the street without obstacle. Neighbors also have freedom.

Local laws have to judge which takes precedence in this case since we aren't physically there to see the street or traffic.

[what's up]

it is easy to see, world tyranny.

However, this one may be just a local neighborhood dustup.

[yldstrk]

I don’t recognize my country anymore

[Rashputin]

"Was he taking up a collection"

From what I've found it doesn't look like he was taking a collection. This is the only shot of the property I found and it doesn't outline the property in any way (the blog that connected me to it is covered in marketing garbage, but at least it has the photo). Judging by the other lots, it actually does look like 1.5 acres and not 4.5 unless the vacant lot behind him is part of the property. There's a photo around that seems to have been taken on that vacant lot, so maybe it is part of the property, and maybe it's a property Salman hopes to purchase. Also, is the indicator on a part of the original home (the garage?) or the new 2000 addition he built?

Either way, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of places for people to park out of the way of traffic unless they don't care and park along the street.

I don't know what problem the neighbors have with this, but I don't believe the "game room" stuff, either. That's an attempt to avoid costly additional building codes and regulations that apply, something that implies to me that Salman looks for angles and loopholes at least as often as he looks to the Lord. I know people who play all sorts of games about being a pastor in order to avoid taxes (one of them now in prison), so I have no doubt some people would play games to avoid additional construction costs. There's a good chance that this boils down to Salman getting caught trying to be too clever by half, then yelling "persecution" to try and avoid bringing his "game room" up to the standards expected of everyone else who builds a church.

It actually looks like the city wasn't doing much of anything about the complaints until Salman built his "game room" at which time they began taking a very active interest.

IMHO, Salman wanted a fight and started one he could have easily avoided. Otherwise he wouldn’t claim he was having family and friends over to worship when there was a sign out front that said, “Christian Worship Sunday 10 am, Wednesday 7 pm” along with various Scriptures on a reader board in front of the home, meaning that he had deliberately turned his “home study” meetings into something clearly defined as meetings open to the public. When he did that, he knowingly was no longer having “home Bible studies” as defined by the laws that apply where he lives and purchased property. A sign that said, “Salman Family Home” and a single unchanging verse, for example, wouldn’t have caused a problem according to what I’ve found so far about local Pheonix regulations.

[HarleyD]

So he had 20 people on 4.5 acres of ground and this is a code violation??? Christians need to wake up.

[Cvengr]

A deeper problem regarding codification, regulation, and legislation arises.

Most municipalities and counties tend to procure copies of codes such as the International Building Code and its brethren from the ICC, edit the codes which have embedded recommended ordinances, to make their adoption a simple uneducated process.

Sort of like ObamaCare and Nancy Pelosi’s infamous, “we have to vote it in, to find out what it means” approach.

Once the code becomes law, administrators appear to be empowered with considerable authority to enforce the “code”.

If our courts truly want to uphold the Constitution, it would wise to emphasize this distinction between a legislative body approving a code they so not understand and an administration’s authority to enforce an unknown code.

Too many administrators who are not professionally trained in the codes, attempt to develop their skills by becoming adroit in code minutia as a substitute for professional skills. Further, those who seek worldly advancement, tend to seek power more than service, but will use the request for their service as justification for their seeking more power and control over the public.

It is virtually impossible to comply with these codes without paying homage to a type of antichristian worldly power system. We act by them, not so much en toto, but in bits and parts, as the need arises. They sneak into the culture, but IMHO are very dangerous.

[One Name]

Yes, indeed FRiend; we win. Some of us survive the Tribulation- some of us lay down our lives..

We know not which, but either way is the path to Glory!

[One Name]

Yes, indeed FRiend; we win. Some of us survive the Tribulation- some of us lay down our lives..

We know not which, but either way is the path to Glory!

[stpio]

...”Some of us survive the Tribulation- some of us lay down our lives..

We know not which, but either way is the path to Glory!”

~ ~ ~

Hey, very well said, thank you. I can’t tell you how many
times the messages from Heaven clarify, NOT everyone will
make it to the refuges, some will be martyred. All in
God’s Will.

Do you think I am a bit off? I just watched the Sound
of Music with one of my older children. The ending, the
escape, the Van Trapp family having to leave their home
makes me think of what is ahead.

A third scenario, not everyone can travel, older
people, people who are ill or disabled, God will
make their home a place of refuge.

13 years I have read them, the John Leary messages hear much about the refuges. http://www.johnleary.com/

[Cvengr]

The source of the problems comes from how the IBC is written.

It categorizes the occupancy of less than 16 people in worship activities as an R3 occupancy, possibly covered instead under the IRC (International Residential Code)

The code is inconsistent because it also classifies worship activities as an A3 category or as an E (Educational) occupancy for <100 people.

Even if a code violation exists, the more criminal aspect is for the municipality to enforce criminal charges vice civil charges. Technically, if a person conducts business out of their home using a FAX machine, or a PC, they too could be jailed and fined by these codes.

The code also exempts periodic gatherings such a a family reunion might entail.

IMHO, these institutions such as the fire dept and the Planning dept for the municipality have been taken over by those who are enemies of Christ and they hate Christ first, then are adversarily accusing anybody associated with his worship. I witness no love for their fellow man emanating from those 2 institutions in these reports.

[Cvengr]

The codes don’t really discriminate between worship open to the public and private worship. The IBC could classify the gatherings as anything from R3 to I to E to A3, but E (eductional) specifically redirects religious training for less than 100 as an R3 occupancy.

That basically means 2 hr fire walls.

In this case, the building is also separated from the remaining areas of the residence, so it probably is already compliant, although with a litany of poorly written codes in the IBC and IRC, the avenue of less work is probably to defend themselves by countering the city with the city approval when the city is better trained at the codes than the residents. Furthermore, just until recently, the codes were not freely available to the public, but had to be purchased as copyrighted material.

[Cvengr]

IMHO, the best approach is to not allow themselves to be placed in the framework presented by those going through the codes.

The worshiping believers have far greater power behind them than does the city. The planners, who seek authority and control from the IBC/IRC, are ignoring God in their thinking.

If they seek a righteous perspective, they also could look at the codes through faith in Christ, but they aren’t. IMHO, they simply are hanging themselves when they are brought before the Supreme Court of Heaven.

A good code enforcement branch will work with law abiding citizens to help resolve perceived noncompliance issues. If the owner refuses to comply, then he is accountable for his stance. If the code enforcement officials are inconsistent, they should be held accountable for their behavior and also face civil and criminal charges for their abuse of their authority.