Skip to comments.Catholicism in the South: Once a Strange Religion, Now Forging Ahead With Evangelical Fervor
Posted on 07/02/2012 12:06:36 PM PDT by marshmallow
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But Scarlett O’Hara was a Catholic! (As was her creator).
Oh, well. Thanks very much for posting.
Really? Famouse Southern civil war General P.G.T Beauregard was a Catholic and nobody seemed to have a problem with it.
Catholicism in Louisiana goes back a long way.
Oh now, can’t go spoiling the myth of the ignorant Catholic hating southerner, it’s very useful in certain circles. Why, next thing you know, somebody might figure out that much of Louisiana is Catholic and always has been.
I guess Louisiana isn’t the South?
Sort of like the libs talking about the anti-semetic history of the south until you point out that the Secretary of War for the CSA was Judah Benjaman - a Jew. He was without a doubt the most effective politician of the confederacy. I believe he ultimately held two cabinet positions because he was the only one who could get things done.
Of late, I’ve been running across more acknowledgment from those in Baltimore, DC, NYC, et al that there IS racism among the people there but “nothing like you’ll find in the DEEP South”.
Start with a false premise, wind up with a faulty conclusion.
Depends on which part of Louisiana. In southern Louisiana plenty of Catholics. In north Louisiana, not so much. During the construction of St. Joseph church in Shreveport men had to stand guard over the materials because they were threatened by the KKK. This was back in the 20s.
The KKK was active in Iowa back in the 20.
btw; in 1975, the Klan announced an organizing meeting at Unionville in northern Missouri and three men showed up.
Two were deputy sheriffs and one guy was from the FBI in Kansas City.
Was being "saved" a prerequisite for fighting in the Confederate forces?
I think we can both agree that your statement in no way speaks to the issue of whether Catholics are "saved" in the eyes of Southern Protestants.
I know a few Catholics at work but most of them transferred here from up North. We have one Catholic church in our area that I know of that is for American Catholics but most are Hispanic churches for all the illegals.
I feel than anybody from any denomination can be Christian. What church you belong to has nothing to do with anything as long as you follow the biblical guidelines for salvation.
The only real problem I have with the Catholic faith is their error in believing that they have to confess to a priest to keep themselves out of trouble. The Catholics that I know at work have the attitude that they can do anything they want (curse, lie, ect.) and just go confess it tomorrow and it will all be fine. Forgiveness for sin comes with responsibility to not do the same sin in the future to the best of your ability even though humans are very sinful creatures. Forgiveness is not a license to keep doing wrong. Priests don’t have the authority to forgive anything.
A friend of mine is Catholic but her husband is not. He asked her a biblical question once and she replied, “now George, you know I’m Catholic and we don’t know anything about the Bible”.
I have lived in the South all of my life. I don’t think they are bad or evil, just a little confused about what the Bible really says, but most organized religions are, even the Southern Baptists. I am a Southern Baptist and I hear a lot of Pastors preach on things that are not 100% biblical. I have attended a Catholic church a few times and in some ways prefer it to the Baptist. They are very peaceful and respectful places to be.
I am 57 years old and have never seen a real life Nun. Since I have attended Catholic churches and never seen one they must be pretty rare creatures. :-)
I don't know that there is any unifed, monolithic position on this "in the eyes" of Southern protestants any more than with Northern protestants. Different pockets go different ways.
My Missionary Baptist friend does NOT consider me a Christian since I am a Catholic. She tells me that HER sect is directly descended from Jesus even though I can name the person who started hers and the year (1889 or something like that). I had NEVER heard that Catholics aren’t considered Christian Takes all kinds.!!
The Cathedral in Raleigh is about the size of our Chapel here.
True, but in 1925 the governor and over half the legislature belonged to the KKK
Your friend was being facecious when she said “Catholics” don’t know anything about the Bible”!! A practicing Catholic will have read the NT in three years of going to Mass on Sundys, since all three of our readings are ALL FROM THE BIBLE! And if she went to a Catholic school or CCD classes, she also learned all of the Bible. It’s just to make Protestants feel better about themselves!!!
No, I promise you that this lady knows nothing about the Bible. She is one of those Catholics, like some Baptists, that only attend church on Christmas and Easter. I do know some Catholics that are very knowledgeable about the Bible but I know just as many that are not.
Your friend is NOT Catholic if she doesn’t follow the rules of the Church.....she might CALL herself Catholic, but she isn’t really. She was BAPTIZED Catholic, but she ISN’T Catholic.
The number one problem that the Catholic Church has is people who call themselves "Catholic" but don't believe. Usually they call themselves Catholic because their parents and grandparents were. They cause a lot of confusion and mislead other folks about Catholic beliefs.
I'll just hit the high spots - :-)
1. The Catholics that I know at work have the attitude that they can do anything they want (curse, lie, ect.) and just go confess it tomorrow and it will all be fine.
Nope. This is a sin called "presumption" - presuming on God's mercy in order to sin. It's worse than whatever the sin was in the first place . . . and will rate you a serious talking-to in the confessional if you own up to it (if you don't, it's still on your soul . . . a horrible thought).
2. Priests dont have the authority to forgive anything.
Well, actually it is God who forgives. But He has given authority (through the laying on of hands by the successors to the Apostles, who received the authority from Christ himself) to His priests to give penance and absolution in His name: "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." John 20:23.
3. Im Catholic and we dont know anything about the Bible
See citation above - I also suspect she was pulling your leg. We hear virtually the entire Bible (except the 'begats' and some of the chronicle books) through in 3 years, thanks to 2 scripture readings + Psalm in every daily Mass, and 3 on Sundays. And if you ever get a chance to attend an Easter Vigil (what you would probably call a Watchnight Service), you will hear a dozen or more scripture readings, with Psalms to match (and antiphons, that is to say chanted scripture, in between).
4. You probably won't see nuns, because they are cloistered. While you might see sisters, you wouldn't necessarily know it because many of them have abandoned their habits. This, in my not particularly humble opinion, was a bad and stupid thing. Hence the recent Vatican investigation of the noisy and radical feminist group of sisters called LCWR . . . like I said, it's folks calling themselves Catholics but believing no such thing that do the most damage to the Church.
. . . just a little old convert here from the wilds of North Georgia . . . :-D
Priests and Pastors are human with human sins. In this day and time there are a lot that are more corrupt than the people they are taking confession from. I guess I don't put a lot of faith in people. I prefer to discuss my sins and failings with God 1/1.
Believe me, I am not bashing Catholics. In fact, I find more fault with Baptist doctrine at times than I do Catholic. It's just different issues. I have told my husband several times that I would love to convert to a Catholic because most of their beliefs make more sense to me, except for the requirement to confess to a Priest.
Then she is a poorly educated Catholic.
Maryland was started as a refuge for Catholics (although Protestants were always in the majority). Charles Carroll of Carrolton, Daniel Carroll (signer of the US Constitution) and Roger B. Taney were all Catholic Marylanders. A bunch of Maryland Catholics were early settlers in Kentucky--Jefferson Davis got some of his early education at a Catholic school and supposedly almost converted. Edgefield, S.C., has a Catholic church building that dates to shortly before the War of 1861.
not true at all...if you have experienced a legitimate baptism, regardless of where it took place, you are a Catholic.
since there is only one true Christian religion (Catholicism) any baptism is into that church. You cannot be baptized a Lutheran, a Methodist, a Baptist, an Episcopalian, a Presbeterian, etc. etc.... You are baptized a Catholic. Now you may (protest) and become a protestant, but you are still a Catholic. If you decide to return to the Catholic church, it is not even necessary for you to be re-baptized!....you were merely a temporarily fallen away Catholic and we welcome you back with open arms!!!!
I would love to read that book and thanks for not judging my comments the wrong way. The most hateful of the replies from others I will mostly ignore.
I was raised a little differently from most Southerners. My dad was born in Chattanooga but my mom was born up North, in Ohio. She was raised a Methodist. My parents encouraged us to attend church with our friends, regardless of the religion. This gave me more of a tolerance for different faiths. I consider all religions (not cults) to be good for the most part with differences.
My husband was raised Church of God of Prophecy but joined the Baptist church as an adult. He has no tolerance for the Catholic faith. We have heated debates over it occasionally with me defending the Catholic church. I’m still a Baptist but I lost a lot of respect for them when the local Pastor told me that my mom wasn’t a Christian because she was a Methodist. I let him know right away that she joined and was baptized in the Baptist church when she married my dad but I realized how closed minded the Baptists were when he made that statement. My mom is one of the most God fearing people I know and his assumption and comment was offensive. I believe that anybody can be a saved Christian, regardless of the denomination they belong to and the Bible backs that up.
My observation is that if there is animosity between Catholic and Protestant in the South it is due to the years and years of ignorance and misinformation being taught by churches in the South.
Thanks so much for your comments. I replied to Carpe Cerevisi and forgot to ping you. My comments also were meant for you as explanation of my thoughts.
The cathedral in Raleigh is small, which is why they’re building a new one.
The idea that a priest must be sinless in order to administer the Sacraments - in fact, that you couldn't be a Christian if you sinned after baptism - was an idea that surfaced very early on in the Church, back in the 3rd century, and was refuted. And given the Borgias and some of the other naughty clerics over the years, I don't think our age is that out of the ordinary.
I used to be an Episcopalian (which had Confession in theory but never in practice, just one-on-one with God as you say), and I found that preparing for the Sacrament of Confession focuses my mind in a way that prayer alone does not. It's way too easy to just sort of feel a general sorrow for being a sinner, without examining exactly how and when and how often you are failing. When you go to Confession, you confess your sins in kind and in number. There are excellent Examinations of Conscience - some based on the Ten Commandments, some on the Precepts of the Church, some on the Cardinal Sins - that help you think in detail about your sins and WHY you are committing them. There is even an iPhone app that you can take into the confessional with you (and it's passworded!) Which of course (with genuine contrition and a firm purpose to amend your life -- necessary for a good confession) helps you stop.
I have found that I have a much clearer view of my sins after getting organized for a good confession and listening to the priest's advice on prayer and ways to avoid sin. After all, this is a system that has been perfected over hundreds and hundreds of years.
My own personal experience, by the way, is that most priests I've gone to for Confession are conscientious, holy men who are doing their best to help you along to Heaven. Surprisingly, even the goofy hippie priests who are holdovers from the 60s and 70s, the kind who drive me up the wall by playing the guitar (very badly) during Mass and wandering the aisles during the homily, still take Confession seriously and exercise their responsibilities with great humility and kindness.
And, of course, a priest will die rather than reveal anything told him under the Seal of the Confessional. St. John Nepomuk was martyred because he would not reveal to the King of Bohemia what his wife, the Queen, had said in Confession. He's portrayed with the martyr's palm in his hand and his finger to his lips, for silence.
**My problem with confession to a Priest happens when it is considered the only way.**
Are you saying that you don’t believe Christ’s words, “Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, whose sins you shall retained, they are retained.?
Yes, Christ gave this blessings and instructions to the apostles, the first bishops of the Catholic Church.
As they ordained other priests, for example, Paul ordaining Timothy, that blessing and authproty is passed on to them.
You do believe the Bible, don’t you?
|1449 The formula of absolution used in the Latin Church expresses the essential elements of this sacrament: the Father of mercies is the source of all forgiveness. He effects the reconciliation of sinners through the Passover of his Son and the gift of his Spirit, through the prayer and ministry of the Church:
I’m not saying that at all. I just don’t believe that you have to talk to God through a Priest. Yes, I do believe the Bible.
For me, with Confession, I KNOW my sins are forgiven and forgotten by God. If I were to confess them straight to God, I would not know that.
There is a story of a guy who worked in a cubicle. He kept asking the guy in the next cubicle who was an inactive Catholic to go to Mass with him.
He asked again and again and again.
Finally the guy in the next cubicle relented and went to Mass with the Catholic guy.
While they were there the first guy noticed that the priest was hearing Confessions. He told his friend from the next cubicle that he was going to Confession and invited him to take part in the Sacrament also. But the visitor did not take this step.
On the way home they were in an auto accident and they both died. The guy from the next cubicle stood in front of Jesus and watched his whole life spin across a screen. Then he said, “How can you forgive all the sins I have committed?” Jesus replied, “You had that opportunity, tonight, sorry.”
Then the original Catholic stood in front of Jesus, watched his life in front of him and asked the same question, “How can you forgive all the sins I have committed?”
Jesus said, “I forgot your sins, go to heaven.”
Confederacy's secret service ... need coffee ...
Note that the sacrament of Holy Penance is also there in Lutheranism, or rather as they call it "Holy Absolution" which is done privately to the pastor and is similar to Catholicism -- the pastor says "In the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
The Pastor is also bound by the seal of Confession.
Orthodox and Oriental Churches have variants on this as well...
It is clear that the Lutheran Fathers had a concept of and a practice of Private Confession and Absolution.And Luther himself said "But whoever has a firm, strong faith in God and is certain that his sins have been forgiven him, he may well omit confession and confess to God alone. But how many are there who have such firm, strong faith and confidence in God? Let everyone look to himself that he does not mislead himself."
"...in an evangelical way, through instruction and exhortation, and through praising it, (he should) work toward the goal that it (P C&A) be diligently used in addition to general confession and that, where it is possible and advisable, it be finally reintroduced as the exclusive custom and that it be properly preserved where it exists.
"To think that one does not need a Father Confessor is dangerously over estimating one's ability to avoid and contest the accusations and derision of the Devil. Luther claims that the pastor who does not make use of the Absolution ought not to be surprised their preaching and practice does not reflect the precious gift God has given to His Church."
So basic is confession to the Christian life, that the Large Catechism simply says: When I urge you to go to confession, I am simply urging you to be a Christian. Christians confess their sins and are forgiven. Unbelievers deny their sins and have no use for forgiveness.so, as you see, this is shared with our Lutheran brethern
Bonhoeffer calls absolution without personal confession a form of cheap grace, a cross-less Christianity. It is the attempt to have repentance without shame, contrition without guilt. It is the equivalent of an out of court settlement - just pay the money admit no wrongdoing. God wants us at the bar of His justice. There is no back room bargaining with the Lord. There is only the Law and the Gospel, our sin and the death of Christ for our sin.
Confession is directed in three ways - to God, to the neighbor, and to the pastor. A Christian always confesses to God, and can always confess to God directly, as we do in the Lords Prayer and in our own personal prayers. That is your privilege as a baptized child of God. People sometimes use this privilege as a dodge and an excuse. I can confess directly to God; therefore, I dont need to confess before another. That isnt humility, but pride. The very words and deeds we are ashamed to admit before a fellow sinner, we were not ashamed to say and do in full view of the Lord of heaven and earth
Though we may confess to God directly, He always deals with us through the external Word, the Word outside of ourselves - through Baptism, through the Lords Supper, through the preached Word. The person who boasts confidently, I can confess my sins to God directly, and therefore dont need the church, misses the basic point. Its not our confession, but Gods forgiveness that matters. And God always deals with us through the incarnation of Jesus, through earthy, creaturely means such as water, bread, wine, words, in this case sound waves that emanate from mouths and go into ear holes.
Christians also confess to their pastor. There are several good reasons for doing this. First, he is ordained to hear confession. Thats what we put him there for. It is one of the tasks laid on a pastor at his ordination. Second, he is equipped by practice and training to help others sharpen and deepen their confession and to square them to the Word of God. Third, he is bound by solemn vow to secrecy, something that a close friends is not. For a pastor to break the seal of confession is grounds for dismissal
Fourth, the pastor is a public, corporate person. He holds an office. The pastor does not speak for himself but for Christ and for the whole church. The pastor is a minister, a servant of the Word, a steward of Gods mysteries revealed in Christ. He is not there as superior, but as servant. He serves not from above but from below. He is there not to condemn but to forgive. He is under holy orders to forgive. A friend may forgive you simply to keep you as a friend. A family member may forgive you for no other reason than to keep peace in the family. Friends and family we have aplenty. Pastors, we have precious few. A pastor forgives by the divine order of the crucified, risen, and reigning Son of God, in his stead and by his command. He represents the person of Jesus, not his own person. Even if the pastor doesnt like you, or even if you dont like him, his forgiveness is Christs forgiveness, sure and certain, addressed to you. And thats really all that matters.
Sure don't understand how your friend could say that, if she actually attends Mass. Every single Mass involves at least 1 reading from the Old Testament, one from the Epistles, written by Jesus's apostles, and one from the Gospels, dealing with the actual events in Jesus's life.
In addition, there is always a Psalm that is either read or sung, in between the Old Testament reading, and the Epistle reading. All you have to do is listen, and read along, and in three years, with the cycle of readings, you've heard almost the entire Scriptures, and listened to countless sermons about them.
I think the lady was being sarcastic to George.
Yep, that's where my Sicilian Grandaddy's parents entered the US, in the 1880s.
Where are they building it??
As I understand it, Jefferson Davis may have converted to Catholicism on his deathbed, and the only foreign power who recognized the Confederacy was His Holiness Pope Pius IX, who sent Davis (after the war) a crown of thorns he himself had made. It’s still visible at the Confederate Museum in New Orleans, I’ve heard.
Thanks to all of you, most anyway, for your wonderful helpful comments. I usually stay away from these threads because I would never ever bash anybody’s beliefs or faiths.
I have always been drawn to the Catholic church for some unknown reason to me. There is a lot I don’t understand since I wasn’t raised a Catholic but I have always admired the faith. Both churches are very good to help the community. The local Baptist church kept me afloat when my husband was critically injured in an accident and I have the utmost respect for them.
I was raised a Southern Baptist and while I greatly admire that religion also, and believe most of what they teach, they have been a disappointment to me on a few occasions. I have found way to many leaders in the church that are not trustworthy and I think this has spilled over to make me hesitant to trust Priests. I have noticed a lot of teachings that I could not back up 100% in the Bible. I have a problem with churches that use the church to make money, the way several wealthy TV preachers have.
In all my life there is one Baptist minister that I admired due to his honesty. I could talk to him about anything. My dad used to make homemade grape wine. Yes, a Southern Baptist that made wine. :-) The practice was passed down through my family for hundreds of years. We originated in Scotland. Anyway, the pastor came every Wednesday night to share a glass of wine with my dad when I was a young teenager. I asked him once how he could be a Baptist preacher and drink wine. I had noticed that he never preached against it. He said that the sin is in being a drunkard but that drinking wine in itself was not sinful. He said that drinking wine (in moderation) was even encouraged as being healthy and good for the body. He said that if anybody asks he always tells them the truth but that if you want to stay a pastor in a Baptist church that you do not say anything about wine being OK in church.
There are a lot of Baptists that believe the same way he does but the church is so consumed with hatred of anything like this that most people just keep their thoughts to themselves and their mouths shut. I also have issues with some of the extreme evangelical churches here that practice handling poisonous snakes. I know that taking up snakes is mentioned in the Bible but to me, that is tempting God and definitely not something that we should do. Faith in God is good, tempting HIM is not.
I would not have a problem with confession to a trustworthy Priest because I know that confession is good but I haven’t found many of that type in the Baptist churches I have attended in my life.
Confession IS good for the soul, and I agree with you to some degree. Like I said in the “book” I just posted, I don’t have a problem with confession and I understand how you see it. Since I am not Catholic I must talk to a Baptist pastor and that is not something I’m comfortable doing because I haven’t found many I trust. :-)