[metmom]

The idea that Catholics or the Catholic church take credit for the talent of the great painters is the height of arrogance.

They are NOT responsible for the greats, even if they did provide a venue for them. If the church wasn’t there, there would have been some other outlet for them. You can’t keep good men down.

[miss marmelstein]

Uh...Medieval Italy was hardly the go-go of 20th Century America, lol! If artists weren't hired and petted and nurtured by the Church or Catholic patrons, they didn't eat. Try reading the beautiful book “The Romance of Leonardo Da Vinci.” It is a wonderful kaleidoscope of Renaissance Italy and the lives of “talented” painters.

[Natural Law]

"The idea that Catholics or the Catholic church take credit for the talent of the great painters is the height of arrogance."

Regardless of your own antipathy toward the Church denying the Church's role in forming the inspiration and providing the incentive and opportunity for the artistic masters of the Renaissance is unfounded.

[boatbums]

I think in an effort to latch onto the credit for another's greatness, some here forget that many of those "old-world" masters have many masterpieces that are NOT religious in nature nor do they remember that a great many never knew fame and fortune while alive and their greatness became such after much time had passed. For example:

Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci; April 15, 1452 – May 2, 1519) was an Italian Renaissance polymath: painter, sculptor, architect, musician, scientist, mathematician, engineer, inventor, anatomist, geologist, cartographer, botanist, and writer whose genius, perhaps more than that of any other figure, epitomized the Renaissance humanist ideal.

Leonardo is revered for his technological ingenuity. He conceptualised a helicopter, a tank, concentrated solar power, a calculator, and the double hull, and he outlined a rudimentary theory of plate tectonics. Relatively few of his designs were constructed or were even feasible during his lifetime, but some of his smaller inventions, such as an automated bobbin winder and a machine for testing the tensile strength of wire, entered the world of manufacturing unheralded. He made important discoveries in anatomy, civil engineering, optics, and hydrodynamics, but he did not publish his findings and they had no direct influence on later science. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_vinci

The Mona Lisa is one of his best known works. He certainly had many commissions requesting his talents. One specifically was for Pope Alexander VI - of the notable Borgia Family - and the Pope's son, Cesare:

In Cesena, in 1502 Leonardo entered the service of Cesare Borgia, the son of Pope Alexander VI, acting as a military architect and engineer and travelling throughout Italy with his patron. Leonardo created a map of Cesare Borgia's stronghold, a town plan of Imola in order to win his patronage. Maps were extremely rare at the time and it would have seemed like a new concept; upon seeing it, Cesare hired Leonardo as his chief military engineer and architect. Later in the year, Leonardo produced another map for his patron, one of Chiana Valley, Tuscany so as to give his patron a better overlay of the land and greater strategic position. He created this map in conjunction with his other project of constructing a dam from the sea to Florence in order to allow a supply of water to sustain the canal during all seasons. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_vinci)

I agree with you, metmom, such creative genius of those like Da Vinci, Raphael and Michelangelo was a gift from God and certainly not something current members of the Catholic Church can boast of. Of course, many of the Masters greatest works were of religious importance, but it can not be said that the Church was behind their gifts.

[boatbums]

I think in an effort to latch onto the credit for another's greatness, some here forget that many of those "old-world" masters have many masterpieces that are NOT religious in nature nor do they remember that a great many never knew fame and fortune while alive and their greatness became such after much time had passed. For example:

Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci; April 15, 1452 – May 2, 1519) was an Italian Renaissance polymath: painter, sculptor, architect, musician, scientist, mathematician, engineer, inventor, anatomist, geologist, cartographer, botanist, and writer whose genius, perhaps more than that of any other figure, epitomized the Renaissance humanist ideal.

Leonardo is revered for his technological ingenuity. He conceptualised a helicopter, a tank, concentrated solar power, a calculator, and the double hull, and he outlined a rudimentary theory of plate tectonics. Relatively few of his designs were constructed or were even feasible during his lifetime, but some of his smaller inventions, such as an automated bobbin winder and a machine for testing the tensile strength of wire, entered the world of manufacturing unheralded. He made important discoveries in anatomy, civil engineering, optics, and hydrodynamics, but he did not publish his findings and they had no direct influence on later science. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_vinci

The Mona Lisa is one of his best known works. He certainly had many commissions requesting his talents. One specifically was for Pope Alexander VI - of the notable Borgia Family - and the Pope's son, Cesare:

In Cesena, in 1502 Leonardo entered the service of Cesare Borgia, the son of Pope Alexander VI, acting as a military architect and engineer and travelling throughout Italy with his patron. Leonardo created a map of Cesare Borgia's stronghold, a town plan of Imola in order to win his patronage. Maps were extremely rare at the time and it would have seemed like a new concept; upon seeing it, Cesare hired Leonardo as his chief military engineer and architect. Later in the year, Leonardo produced another map for his patron, one of Chiana Valley, Tuscany so as to give his patron a better overlay of the land and greater strategic position. He created this map in conjunction with his other project of constructing a dam from the sea to Florence in order to allow a supply of water to sustain the canal during all seasons. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_vinci)

I agree with you, metmom, such creative genius of those like Da Vinci, Raphael and Michelangelo was a gift from God and certainly not something current members of the Catholic Church can boast of. Of course, many of the Masters greatest works were of religious importance, but it can not be said that the Church was behind their gifts.