Must We Believe in the Virgin Birth?

AlbertMohler.com ^ | December 14, 2011 | Dr. Albert Mohler

[Jay Thomas]

Frankly, with the advent of artificial insemination, something mere humans can pull off, I can't understand people still questioning the Virgin birth. It's basically an excuse to not exercise faith.

[metmom]

Cronos, I've got to stop you here. I can't answer directly for metmom, but I do know that in most areas the two of us agree on Biblical topics and I've never heard her reject the Virgin Birth, nor do I know of any other Protestants which do reject the Virgin Birth. That's one of the fundamentals of the Faith which all branches of Christianity agree upon.

As for your claim that Uri's group denies the Virgin Birth, where has this been claimed? I've not heard this at all.

Until Cronos can provide some solid evidence of these things that he's stating about us, it's all tilting at windmills.

Making baseless blanket statements about people based on nothing but conjecture is not debate with any kind of honesty or integrity.

My posting history is there for all to see and my position on every topic he's accused me of can be found there.

Cronos, if you can point me or anyone else to specific posts that we have made that would lead you to arrive at the *your group* kind of conclusions you keep throwing out at me and others, post them and I'll address mine specifically.

But I am not and will not engage in stupid gotcha games whose sole purpose seems to be nothing other than finding out personal information about other FReepers or providing ANYONE with the opportunity to pass judgment on the validity of my faith because it doesn't match someone else's opinion.

If you're going to base your questioning on presumptions and expect me to disprove them or concede to them, you will be having a long wait.

My refusal to engage means nothing more than the fact that I recognize bating and manipulation tactics and will not be baited or manipulated.

Matthew 5:11-12 11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

The Pharisees falsely accused Jesus as well. I can wear it as a badge of honor to be keeping His company.

So, Cronos, bug off.

[metmom]

No gotcha games — just a question — why believe that? you ask me and other in orthodoxy about our faith, so why can’t we ask you about yours?

I will not answer any question that presumes a position I hold.

I do not recall asking any Catholic about their faith. I was born and raised a Catholic. I know all I need to about it.

[Quix]

Perversely and unnecessarily sowing discord amongst the Brothers and Sisters is harshly condemned in Scripture.

[CynicalBear]

>>I believe that since the Catholics have been told to lay off the direct questioning of people concerning their religious affiliation<<

LOL Some haven’t gotten that message. See post 20 to me. It’s their way to “fit into the little boxes” which seems to make them feel better. It’s a way to apply indiscretions of anyone one person of that “organization” to other individuals.

[CynicalBear]

They can’t really understand that salvation isn’t contingent on “belonging” to some human organized “religion”. Cults indoctrinate into the adherents the claim that if they don’t follow “their rules” they will be damned. Belonging to the “group” is salvation in and of itself. It’s one of the more obvious signs of a true cult.

[boatbums]

Mr. Kristof can call me an “intellectually backward” Christian all he wants because I could not care less what he thinks of me. I agree with the article that the virgin birth is at the very pinnacle of the Christian faith and to deny it, is to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. Anyone who wants to reduce Christ to a mere man does so to deny his atoning death for all the world. It's no wonder that those who deny the virgin birth also deny the resurrection as well as the many miracles throughout God's dealing with mankind. Take away the Virgin Birth and you destroy Christianity.

[count-your-change]

Touche’ metmom! Those trying to bait others are best ignored.

[boatbums]

This is why the divine, the unknown and the unknowable of religion are so hated, because philosophy has no such unshakable and unchanging ideas. If God says something, then it is the eternal truth. If a philosopher says something, it is just one guy’s opinion, and doesn’t change anything.

Very well said! It is the idea that "absolutes" really exist that burns their buns. God laughs in derision at them.

[Religion Moderator]

Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. Do not categorize believers by a Freeper's name, e.g. "metmom's group."

Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.

[Judith Anne]

Metmom frequently pings an entire group to her posts. How is it that we cannot address the group? Metmom has a convenient shorthand for Catholics, and will not identify a denomination she belongs to, but often uses “Catholics” as a group and states what she thinks they believe, whether it’s true or not.

How is this fair?

[Judith Anne]

If metmom pings a group, why may Catholics not address the group she pings, as a group?

[Religion Moderator]

If she were referring to the beliefs of the Freepers you ping as “Judith Anne’s group” I’d also tell her to stop it. It is “making it personal.” It will lead to flame wars.

[boatbums]

Absolutely! Atheists relish the chance to chip away at Christianity. The Virgin Birth is only one of many in a line that they will use to accomplish the destruction. The reason should be obvious that if they can get someone to doubt even one small part, they can use it as a toehold to gouge at the bigger parts. Cause a little doubt and the rest is not far behind. I refuse to fall for the game and I trust that God is who is behind Holy Scripture. If he said it, that settles it for me. “God is not a man that he should lie.”

[Judith Anne]

As though “flame wars” were a novelty on the Religion Forum!

“Judith Anne’s group” is well known to be Catholic posters. She has no need to address my “group” all metmom has to do is say “Catholics.” She even posts directly to me, and references “Catholics” to avoid making it personal.

[Religion Moderator]

The assumption cannot be made that everyone a Freeper pings shares the same religious beliefs. Neither can the presumption be made that a Freeper believes A or B or whatever.

And Freepers should not be subjected to badgering on the Religion Forum to uncover their beliefs. If they want to testify, they will.

[Judith Anne]

Your position is clear.

When metmom does it, no problem. When a Catholic does it, that’s different.

[Lera]

Salvation - some believe in the Koran instead....
Some believe they worship the same diety as in the koran too and have made it part of their church doctrine.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Cronos]

I will not answer any question that presumes a position I hold.

Then why do you ask questions of others then? If a person demands questions of others and never talks about their own faith, well, hypocritical is the word that comes to mind.

So, if that person instead of talking about their faith instead says "bug off", that tells everyone a lot about what they actually believe....

[metmom]

I’ve said a lot about what I believe so your statement is untrue.

Read my posting history.

It’s all there.