whereas the those that choose to follow Jesus Christ and choose to keep Lord’s covenants act for themselves.
So do WE!
Posted on 12/17/2011 12:39:41 PM PST by Colofornian
(Excerpt) Read more at mormonthink.com ...
So do WE!
NEWS FLASH! The LDS Church is Anti-Christian, and has said so from its inception, just read the first vision story.
Deseret Book is more than a simple christian book store, it is a corporate giant in religious publishers. I would have a hard time naming a single Christian publisher that comes close to the amount of propaganda put out by Deseret Book. I am sure there are plenty of Lay Clergy being published by the church publisher and not making a blessed cent.
I just wish that the LDS people would own their beliefs. Ask a Christian what he believes and you get the straight answer, ask a Mormon and you will get a myriad of answers and not one being the truth.
“Ask a Christian what he believes and you get the straight answer”
When I used to be a member of one of the other Christian churches one of the members said, “God told me to buy a Subaru.” Now come on people! I was also told that the Trinity is like an egg - the shell, the white and the yolk - it’s a mystery. I also noticed that the preachers contradict each other - for example in healing, speaking in tongues, taking of Communion, different forms of baptism, and the list goes on and on.
Now, I am a Mormon and believe that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, that He suffered and died to save me from my sins; this was Heavenly Father’s Plan of Salvation; and the Holy Ghost is my Best Friend. Unfortunately, my sincere confession of faith is not good enough for you. You have already condemned me to hell - me and all the Mormons past, present and future. Personally, I would be careful with that if I were you being as how you are only a mortal lacking the power to condemn any other human being to hell.
Merry Christmas!
P.S. There are no paid clergy in the LDS Church.
Sandy no one can condemn you to hell, people go there of their own free will.
Unpaid clergy is not Biblical.
And so what if God told the guy to buy a Subaru, they are pretty good cars.
The Trinity is a mystery.
Do preachers contradict each other on gifts of the Spirit, sure, but they agree that Jesus dies on the Cross rose again, to pay the price for our sin.
Sandy I am always amazed that you say “I am a mormon or I am a member of the CofLDS” THEN mention the lds chrit.
You have it backwards..(why am I not surprised?)....The mormon tradition of men is to act for themselves in trying to work their way to a false salvation, while a Christian who "chooses to follow Jesus Christ" is acted upon by the Holy Spirit to follow the Trinitarian God in not attempting to construct his own salvation, but in by freely giving his life and soul to God alone and trusting HIM.
LOL - I also ask well “if so” then “how come this” asking in a polite contrite manner.
I would like to read the post where I condemned anyone to hell.
As for your questions to Christians you got their straight answer. They would not tell you something different the next week.
Yes there are Christians that make off the wall claims about what to buy and such. You as a Mormon have to believe that they have the ability to receive revelation for themselves.
P.S. prove that there are no paid clergy. You have made the allegation and I say prove it. My angle is that those apostles and prophets make money from books published by Deseret Book. I am sure there are more money streams but that is the most obvious.
You do know why they force this issue of keeping non-members out of temple weddings don’t you?
To “encourage” the family to convert so that they may attend the temple ceremony. Under the premise that a loving family will do anything in order to witness their children being married.
If they don’t, then they are “punished” by being denied the opportunity of attending/witnessing the “nuptials”.
Sick.
Admit the slander and apologize or show your proof.
I'm glad to see you keep throwing what's left of your credibility into the gutter.
Just another example of mormons who will do absolutely anything necessary to tear down the detractors of mormonism.
Note that this particular mormon has failed to provide any PROOF, yet continues to sling accusations and slander.
I guess since the lies being posted are aimed towards non-mormons, no meeting with the bishop is required?
LIE FOR THE lORD!!! (yeah that's an intentional lower case l, the mormon god is a false god.)
Where in any of the scriptures the mormons use can YOU find the temple rituals you all perform in those dens of deception?
If it's not written in your "holy books" then it must be that all of those rituals are nothing more than "traditions" right?
LDS publishers include Deseret Book, Covenant Communications, Granite Publishing, Shadow Mountain, Millennial Press, Cove Fort Publications, and a few other smaller companies. Brigham Young University also has a press.
There are a number of Mormon books on faith and other religious teachings by General Authorities, Prophets, and other religious leaders of the Church.
http://www.askgramps.org/books-by-general-authorities
http://www.seagullbook.com/General_Authority-lds-products.html
Following The Money In The United Kingdom
The Church is registered as both a charity and a company, and as such it is required to be registered with the Charity Commission and Companies House. It is also obliged to publish year-end accounts of it's activities. Interestingly the Church was one of a number of charities that was censured for late returns of it's accounts for 2004. As each charity has 10 months from the end of the year to submit its report we will have to wait until 31st October to find out how the church faired in 2005.
The Church has three charities that are currently registered;
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Great Britain) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Welfare) LDS Family Services (UK) Ltd.
Each of these organisations is wholly owned by two parent companies; The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Gordon "The Hammer" Hinckley) and The Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka David "The Bruiser" Burton), both of Salt Lake City, Utah.
If you scroll down each of these links you will see a further link where you can view the yearly reports for each organisation. The COJCOLD (Welfare) also owns three additional, separate companies (not charities). These are;
AgReserves Ltd Farmspeed (Southery Anchor) Ltd Hallwsworth (Farmland Trust) Ltd
You can search for basic details of these companies here. You also have the option of paying £1 per document to look at their annual returns. I looked at a sample and will post info on this at a later date. Each of these companies are farming enterprises, and grow the wheat that we all get to buy, pack and add to our food storage.
Some of the basic info that i picked up from the accounts of the 'main' church charity include;
Surplus income over expenditure was £2,042,000, assisted by a £5m donation from the boys in SLC, leaving a balance in their HSBC account of £20,891,000.
For a church that has no paid ministry we managed to spend £7,752,000 on staff costs, in fact it was the largest single expenditure.
As well as this £856,000 was spent on 'travel', £2,301,000 on 'General administration', £265,000 on 'Materials and supplies' and £855,000 on equipment.
Despite members donating £252,000 to the Humanitarian Aid Fund the church only spent £51,000 of it. More on this another time because this sort of thing really really ticks me off.
In 2004 the number of employees earning between £70-£80k was 1; £60-£70k was 7 and £50-£60k was 12. Nice work if you can get it.
Assets in the course of construction, land and buildings, equipment and motor vehicles came to a value of £299,227,000. Depreciation of these assets was reckoned to be £52,502,000 which gives the church a net worth in terms of tangible assets of £246,725,000, a little under £0.25bn. And that doesn't include the cash in the bank.
There is an outstanding 'loan' from the parent company ("The Hammer") of £228,358,000. I used the word loan loosely as it stipulates there is no interest charge and no fixed repayment terms. More on this later as i need time to decipher the jargon; looks like large sums being channelled back to SLC but will check.
"The Church's active membership continues to grow" - yeah right. At year end there were 45 stakes, 1 District, 278 Wards and 85 Branches in Great Britain and Ireland. Compared to the end of 2003 there have been no additional Stakes, no additional Districts, 4 additional Wards, and 10 fewer Branches.
The stone that isn't rolling forth.
Following The Money In The Uk - Part 2
Last time i focussed on the workings of the main church organisation in the UK, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Great Britain) ; this post is about it's sister 'charity', The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Welfare) Limited.
The objectives of the charity are to promote the religious and other charitable work of the church here in the UK and to relieve members of the church and others who are in conditions of need, hardship, sickness or distress. In order to do this the charity;
Invests in farms which it rents out to its subsidiary companies; any profits are returned to the charity under covenant.
Acquires land and builds purpose built meeting houses in which members can worship and receive instruction. Assists individuals suffering through hardship, sickness and distress as needed. Provides advice and guidance to church members on the church's worldwide welfare and humanitarian aid programmes.
From reading the 363s Annual Return that each company is required to submit it appears that LDS (Welfare) decided to free up some cash through issuing more shares. LDS (Welfare) previously had an Issued Share Capital of 100 Ordinary shares valued at £1 each, giving an aggregate nominal value of issued shares of £100. In 2004 they upped this considerably, increasing this to £10,000,000. All shares are held by the Corporation of the Presdiding Bishop. On 31st March 2005 the Presiding Bishop became the sole owner of the charity/company and 50 shares previously held by the Corporation of the President of the Church were transferred over. On 2nd June 2005 the company's status was changed to a private limited company.
(NB On closer examination it appears that LDS (Great Britain) also released a further £10m through issuing shares and was also transferred to the sole ownership of the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop)
Some more highlights include;
The Group (Welfare plus subsidiary companies) had a surplus of £147,000. Helped by a donation from it's sister charity LDS (Great Britain). This money went into the reserves, which now total £9,207,000.
'Direct Charitable Expenditure' for the year was £7,243,000. This is all well and good until you learn what counts as 'charity'; £5,279,000 was 'construction' costs' (remember, one of the purposes of this charity is to build meeting houses for the church) £37k was depreciation, £663k was on 'physical facilities', £322k on 'operating costs' and £50k on 'professional fees' (probably the auditors from PwC) which left £892,000 for 'charitable contributions'.
2004 was a tough year down on the farm. The trustees report that due to a wet harvest that prolonged the season there was a drop in both yield and quality, which hit profits. They indicate a 12% drop from the previous year. Yet in the accounts 'profits covenanted from farm activities' was £472,000 this year, compared with £855,000 last year. So profits might have fallen by 12% but what was passed on to the charity fell by nearly half.
Staff costs were high, accounting for £1,142,000 over the year. There is 1 employee earning between £60-70k and 2 earning between £50-60k.
As with LDS (Great Britain) there is an outstanding loan to the boys in Salt Lake, the amount outstanding on this one is £52,077,000. It appears on the accounts but there is no interest charge and no fixed repayment conditions.
The last 2 pages of the submission don't seem to have been posted on the charity commission's website, i have emailed them requesting them as this generally provides a neat summary of the year.
Taking into account all of the income and expenditure of the church in the UK i have managed to make the following calculations;
The church (GB) received £23,488,000 in 'unrestricted funds' (tithing) and £2,663,000 in 'restricted funds' (Fast, Humanitarian Aid, Missionary Support etc etc). Together with interest, profits from selling assets their total income was £27,077,000.
LDS (Welfare) received £7,433,000 (£500k of which was from LDS (GB). Taking that into account the total amount of money, from all sources, coming in to the church in this country was £34,010,000. (NB The £5m from SLC i mentioned in the previous post wasn't a donation as such, but rather a cancelled loan re-payment. No actual money changed hands)
Money that was made available to those in need by way of 'grants', 'humanitatian aid' and 'charitable contributions' by both organisations was £1,077,000. (NB I have not included the £500k transfer from one to the other, even though LDS (GB) counted this as a charitable donation, as i included it in the above calculation).
The cost of staff, travel, admin, supplies, equipment, auditing, money lost exchanging currencies, physical facilities and operating costs came to £15,507,000. That doesn't include building new meeting houses, depreciation etc.
In other words the church spent 14 times more money administering itself than it spent on the 'needy'; or calculated another way the church spent a little over 3% of it's incoming money on the needy.
Fast Offering and Humanitarian Aid Fund contributions came to £1,571,000, so even if we calculate that money church members donated specifically for the needy, the church only spent 70% of that on what the members had in mind when they donated it.
This is interesting because every now and then there is talk in church of maybe supporting a charity involved in the developing world, or that specifically helps the homeless or whoever.
There is always someone who sticks their hand up and cautions that alot of these charities spend money on their overheads, but you know that if you donate through the church that every single penny will find it's way through to those in need.
I think this has demonstrated that assertion to be unsupported by the evidence.
source - http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_missionaries_section2.html
Wow. This is incredible information you have provided.
Here's more on the money making going on within mormon inc. If you read it through, you'll see that they don't mention the ones who do the "real work" in mormonism. The "lay clergy" Sandy just loves to hold up as an "example". I guess they're just not "worthy" enough to warrant a little "compensation" for "serving the lord".
In answer to the question, "Do the Mormon General Authorities get paid?," in a nutshell:
Hell, yes.
Indeed, the Mormon Church hierarchy has a repetitive, disingenuous, embarrassing and often greedy history of billing its rank-and-file members for their support--while attempting to make the less-than-convincing claim (clearly designed for public consumption) that its presiding officers are on humble financial par with the Mormon Church's vast lower-level uncompensated lay clergy.
In his book, "The Mormon Hierarchy--Extensions of Power," Chapter Six, "Church Finances," D. Michael Quinn lays out the LDS Church's senioritized system of paying its presiding officers from the earnings of regular Church members.
Under the heading "Paid Ministry and Voluntary Service" are telling excerpts. (Subtitles have been inserted for smoother reading):
Mormon Scripture Cited for Hiring Joseph Smith and Subsequent General Authorities
". . . Before the church even had a tithing requirement, it had a paid ministry. In November 1831 a revelation declared: 'He who is appointed to administer spiritual things, the same is worthy of his hire . . .' (D&C 70:12). This was the doctrinal basis for giving financial support to Joseph Smith, and later to a hierarchy of general authorities." _____
Mormon Church Justifies Monetary Assistance to General Authorities, Including First Presidency and Other High-Ranking Officers
"In May 1835 an official church council voted that the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and First Council of Seventy 'have particularly to depend upon their ministry for their support, and that of their families; and they have a right, by virtue of their offices, to call upon the churches to assist them.'. . . When Bishop Edward Partridge gave the first definition of tithing in December 1837, part of the tithing was for 'remunerating the officers of the church for the time which they were necessarily employed in doing the business of the same.' Six months later the stake high council voted 'to instruct the Bishop to pay the First Presidency, J. Smith, & Sidney Rigdon, whatever sum they agree with them for.' However, there was 'such an uproar' over this decision that the First Presidency dropped its request for a fixed annual salary. . . . " _____
Church Patriarchs Paid for Giving Blessings and Eventually Authorized to Accept Donations
"For several decades only the patriarch had a set compensation, while other general authorities depended on haphazard donations from the rank-and-file or ad hoc appropriations from general church funds. In 1835 the Presiding Patriarch was authorized a salary of $10 a week, plus expenses. . . .
"Both the Presiding Patriarch and local stake patriarchs charged a fee. In the 1840s the fee was $1 per patriarchal blessing at Nauvoo; by the end of the nineteenth century it had increased to $2 per blessing. . . . Joseph Smith, Sr., gave patriarchal blessings without payment of a fee, but would not record them. . . . 'Uncle' John Smith commented that he 'lived very Poor ever Since we Left Kirtland Ohio' in January 1838 until January 1844. Then his nephew Joseph Smith ordained him a patriarch 'through which office I Obtained a Comfortable Living.' . . .
"Financial incentive is another explanation for the fact that individual Mormons received more than one patriarchal blessing in the nineteenth century, often at the invitation of the patriarch. In October 1877 John Taylor criticized the monetary motivation of some stake patriarchs. He said they were using their patriarchal office as 'a mere means of obtaining a livelihood, and to obtain more business they had been traveling from door to door and underbidding each other in the price of blessings.' . . .
"In addition, patriarchs received fees for giving unrecorded blessings of healing to the sick. In fact, Apostle Francis M. Lyman commended Patriarch Elias Blackburn for 'doing a great deal of good among the sick, without receiving very much pay for his services.' . . .
"Patriarchal blessing fees ended in 1902, although patriarchs were allowed to accept unsolicited donations. . . . Not until 1943 did church authorities prohibit patriarchs from accepting gratuities for giving blessings. . . ." _____
Local Mormon Church Leaders Also Lived Off of Tithing
"In the nineteenth-century American West, local officers of the LDS church obtained their support from the tithing they collected. As early as 1859 Brigham Young wondered 'whether a Stake would not be better governed when none of the officers were paid for their services.' . . . During Young's presidency, ward bishops drew at will from the primarily non-cash tithing Mormons donated. He complained at October 1860 general conference 'against a principle in many of the Bishops to use up all the Tithing they could for their own families.' . . ." _____
Full-Time Mormon Missionaries Also Lived Off of Tithing
"Even full-time missionaries benefitted from tithing funds in the nineteenth century. The senior president of the First Council of Seventy commented in 1879 that the families of married missionaries should be supported from tithing funds. . . . However, at best that practice barely kept struggling wives and children out of abject poverty while their husbands and fathers served two-year missions." _____
Salaries Ordered for the Quorum of the Twelve
"In 1884 church president John Taylor limited bishops to 8 percent of tithing they collected (now primarily cash), while stake presidents got 2 percent of tithing collected by all the bishops of the stake. In 1888 Wilford Woodruff established set salaries for stake presidents and provided that a stake committee would apportion 10 percent of collected tithing between the bishops and the stake tithing clerk. At April 1896 general conference, the First Presidency announced the end of salaries for local officers, in response to the decision of the temple meeting 'to not pay Salaries to any one but the Twelve.' . . ." _____
Temporary Suspension of Salaries for Stake Presidents
"Nevertheless, ending salaries to stake presidents in 1896 was temporary. For a while stake presidents and their counselors were allowed to draw 'from the tithing fund . . . no more than the limit which had been previously specified, and not to entertain the idea that a stipulated compensation attached like a salary to certain offices in the Church.' By April 1897 the First Presidency spoke about 'the subject of compensation to presiding men' in a meeting with stake presidents and other local officers. The First Presidency urged 'the brethren to give their services so far as possible to the church without remuneration.' In 1898 'the regular 10% of tithing [was] allowed Bishops and clerks for handling the same,' but the First Presidency balked at allowing even more to cover expenses for supplies. . . .
"By 1904 set salaries were back again for stake presidents, who were allowed $300 per year. . . .
As late as 1910, local officers continued to receive 10 percent of locally collected tithing 'for handling tithes.' . . . Recently a Mormon said that his father received a cash allowance as bishop in the 1920s, which was a later period of such compensation than my own research has verified. . . ." _____
Retirement Allowances for Stake Presidents and Bishops
"In addition, since the 1880s stake presidents and bishops of long tenure had received retirement allowances in monthly or annual payments. . . . In 1901 even the parsimonious church president Lorenzo Snow said that a financially struggling stake president 'ought to receive his remuneration after he was released as well as before.' Retirement allowances for stake presidents continued into the early 1900s. . . ." _____
Systematic Payouts for General Authorities at the Expense of the Rank-and-File Members
". . . [F]inancial compensation for church officers began with the general authorities in the 1830s but did not become systematic until 1877. During these decades there was evidence of rank-and-file dissatisfaction with the Mormon hierarchy's financial privileges. In 1847 Brigham Young told a public meeting: 'Be cont[e]nted with your lot and station and stop whining and babbling about the 12, saying that Brigham oppresses the poor and lives off their earning and that you can't see why you can't have some of his good living, and so on. Did Brigham Young ever get anything from you, did you ever help him to any of his fine living, you poor curses, or was it through Brigham's influence that thousands of the poor have been fed?' . . . After Young and the apostles spent the next twelve years directing the expanding settlements of the Great Basin, 'Erastus Snow spoke Concerning the feelings of many of the people against seeing the Twelve prosper in Temperal things.' . . ." _____
Church Leaders Bow to Pressure and Scale Back Their Financial Demands for Personal Monetary Support--But Not for Long
"Following discussion of this criticism in February 1859, the First Presidency and apostles restrained their financial activities. For the next five years Salt Lake County's annual assessments showed a steep decline in the wealth of Brigham Young, his counselors, and the apostles. By contrast the assessed wealth of the Presiding Bishop and his counselors initially increased and then only gradually tapered off during the same period. The rank-and-file expected the Presiding Bishopric to have extensive financial activity. . . . In fact, the pendulum had swung so far that in December 1865 Apostle John Taylor 'Prophesyed that the Twelve should be delivered from the bondage of poverty under which they have been weltering for years.' . . ." _____
Massive Personal Wealth for Brigham Young and His Counselors
"Although the rate of this financial decline had been equivalent for the First Presidency and apostles, the burden was far less on Brigham Young and his counselors who had massive personal wealth compared to the apostles. In 1859 Young's own property assessments were only slightly below those of the entire church for Salt Lake County. Young's totalled $100,000, while the Trustee-in-Trust's was $102,250. . . . In 1860 first counselor Heber C. Kimball 'observed that Mormonism had made him all that he was: he was worth $20,000 now; and if he had remained in the States he would have been a poor man to this day.' . . . Brigham Young estimated his personal wealth at about $600,000 in a legal deposition of 1875. That was three years after he paid $100,000 in 'the tithing of his own personal means.' . . . By contrast, during Young's presidency the Twelve's average assessed wealth reached a high of $6,672 in 1874, and several apostles individually had only $500 to $2,000 in assessed wealth annually from 1860 to Young's death in August 1877. . . ." _____
General Conference Announcement of General Authority Payments
"At the October 1877 general conference, the hierarchy announced a policy of 'reasonable recompense for their services' to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and to the First Presidency, when organized. In John Taylor's view, this was actually a way of stopping the previous abuses in the personal use of tithing funds. 'Some of my brethren, as I have learned since the death of President Brigham Young, did have feelings concerning his course,' Apostle George Q. Cannon wrote. 'It is felt that the funds of the Church have been used with a freedom not warranted by the authority which he held.' . . . Of general authorities still living, Joseph F. Smith wrote in December 1877: 'One man, for instance, who has drawn $16,000 per year from the tithing office for his support, has been cut down to 2,000 per year. Thus some of the leaks are plugged up and we hope to be able by and by to build the temple.' . . . Smith was apparently referring to Brigham's son John W. Young, who served as his father's counselor for thirteen years (first secretly and later with public acknowledgement).
"However, Taylor's 'reasonable recompense' of 1877 did not cover the needs of the apostles. At an apostles meeting on 3 May 1880, 'The question of over running salaries was brought up. Several of the brethren had overdrawn their allowance . . . ' They voted to forgive the overdrafts and to increase their annual allowance. In addition, the apostles decided to give an allowance to the Presiding Patriarch in addition to his per-blessing fee. . . ." _____
Fixed Salaries Established for General Authorities
"In September 1887 this became fixed allotments, which one apostle opposed with the comment: 'it was repugnant to the people to have the 12 [apostles] draw a salary.' . . . In April 1888 the First Council of Seventy also began receiving financial allowances, to which one council member replied: 'I would prefer to receive no salary.' A 'permanent' allowance to members of the First Council of Seventy was not established for another decade. . . ." _____
Church Presidents and Their Guilty Consciences
"Nevertheless, LDS presidents themselves expressed discomfort about using their allowances. When the First Presidency and Twelve discussed the salary system again in 1896, President Wilford Woodruff said that he had not drawn money from the church until after 1877. Apostle Lorenzo Snow, Woodruff's presidential successor, said that despite the allowance system, he had not drawn from church funds for forty years. . . . This resistance to making personal use of church funds reached its climax in President Heber J. Grant, who rode public street cars rather than use tithing funds to have an automobile and chauffeur for the First Presidency. . . ." _____
Guilt Aside, General Authority Salaries Continued to be Authorized
"Despite discomfort over receiving tithing funds for living allowances, a salary system for LDS general authorities continued without significant interruption from 1882 on. As indicated by Joseph F. Smith's 1877 letter and by Wilford Woodruff's diary, the apostles received $2,000 to $2,500 annually during the first five years of the salary system. Then significant financial stratification occurred, with the senior apostle receiving $5,000 annually, apostles of middle seniority $3,000, and junior apostles $2,000. In September 1887 the apostles adopted a uniform compensation, with each receiving $3,000. Although there was not yet a fixed allowance for the First Council of Seventy, in 1888 the Presiding Patriarch's 'annuity' increased from $1,000 to $1,250. . . ." _____
Salary Levels of Mormon Top Leadership Determined by Power and Seniority Rankings
"By the turn of the twentieth century, the hierarchy's allowances were stratified by ecclesiastical position and seniority. In 1890 the monthly allowances of the Quorum of the Twelve and Presiding Bishop were identical, with the counselors in the First Presidency receiving $50 more a month and the church president receiving another $100 monthly. By 1907 the monthly allowances were stratified into a six-tiered system: (1) the lowest allowance for junior members of the Seventy, (2) the next higher allowance to mid-level members of the Seventy and the Presiding Patriarch, followed by (3) the eight junior members of the Twelve, (4) the Presiding Bishopric, two senior members of the Seventy, and four senior members of the Twelve, (5) the counselors in the Presidency, and (6) the president of the church. In those 1907 allowances, $100 monthly separated the top two tiers, and only $50 monthly separated each of the lower tiers. By 1932 there were only four strata in the monthly allowance system: (1) the lowest allowance was for counselors to the Presiding Bishop and for the entire Seventy, (2) an extra $50 monthly allotment for the Presiding Bishop, the Presiding Patriarch, and all members of the Twelve, (3) an additional increase of $100 monthly for counselors in the First Presidency, (4) and a $150 monthly bonus for the church president.76David O. McKay's presidency (1951-70) adopted uniform allowances for all general authorities, regardless of quorum or seniority. . . ."
_____ Miscellaneous Fees for General Authority Services Rendered
"There were also miscellaneous fees which the general authorities collected for ecclesiastical services. Brigham Young charged men 'ten dollars for each divorce' or cancellation of sealing, which policy continued until the end of the century.78 In addition, until 1899 the general authorities charged a fee for setting apart all departing missionaries. . . ." _____
General Authorities Complain That They Aren't Getting Enough
"Periodically the Mormon hierarchy has made a significant increase in monthly allowances to general authorities. In 1950, for example, there was a 30-percent increase. . . . Nevertheless, in view of the financial empire administered by the LDS general authorities, their compensation from church funds has always been paltry compared to the salaries and perks of corporate America. In 1949 First Presidency counselor J. Reuben Clark wrote that 'the General Authorities of the Church get precious little from the tithing of the Church. They are not paid as much as a first-class, stenographic secretary of some of the men who run industry.' . . . That disparity was probably the reason for the next year's increase in allowances to the general authorities.
"For example, as a newly appointed Assistant to the Twelve in 1941, Marion G. Romney found that his church 'allowance amounted to less than half of what he was earning from his law practice when he was called as a General Authority.' . . . Appointed an apostle that same year, Harold B. Lee found that his financial allowance was less than the salary of some staff members at LDS headquarters. . . . As was true in the nineteenth-century hierarchy, a significant drop in income and personal wealth occurred when a man accepted the calling of LDS general authority. . . ." _____
Lucrative General Authority Book Bonuses
"Although not a formal salary, general authorities can also receive significant income from the books they publish. When he published 'The Way To Perfection' in 1931, Joseph Fielding Smith specified that all its future royalties would go to the LDS Genealogical Society. However, he was not as generous with the royalties from his dozens of other books. For example, when President Smith died in July 1972, his royalties from Deseret Book Company totaled $9,636 for the previous six-month period.85 Presiding Bishop (and later apostle) LeGrand Richards set a remarkable example by accepting no royalties for his 'Marvelous Work and a Wonder' which had sold 2 million copies by the time of his death in 1983. However, a president of the LDS church's publishing company has observed that very few general authorities have declined royalties for their books. . . Mormons purchase books written by general authorities primarily because of the church office the author holds, rather than for the book's content. Although many general authorities do not write books, such royalty income is a direct consequence of being an LDS leader." _____
Hinckley Hides Reality of Extent of General Authority Living Allowances
"Speaking of LDS church-owned businesses and stock-portfolio in 1985, First Presidency counselor Gordon B. Hinckley said that 'the living allowances given the General Authorities, which are very modest in comparison with executive compensation in industry and the professions, come from this business income and not from the tithing of the people. . . . However, tithing was the source of these 'living allowances' from the 1830s until the church's corporate success in recent years.
"Moreover, President Hinckley's description of the hierarchy's income as 'very modest' depends upon one's own concept of wealth. For example, when Joseph Fielding Smith died at age ninety-five in 1972, he had worked nearly all his adult life at LDS headquarters, first as a paid employee in the Historian's Office and then as a general authority with a church living allowance. At his death, President Smith had $245,000 in bank deposits, $120,000 in cash, $120,574 in stocks/bonds, and $10,688 in uncashed checks (including Deseret Book royalties of $9,636). Even twenty-five years after his death, few rank-and-file Mormons have such "modest" amounts of cash and liquid assets available to them in old age. . . ." _____
Church Presidents Use of Church Funds to Cancel Their Personal Debts
"The LDS ministry is still a volunteer, lay ministry. In the twentieth century, church offices have become unpaid to a degree they never were in the nineteenth century. Of more than 160,000 ecclesiastical leaders at the beginning of 1996, fewer than 500 were authorized a living allowance from church funds. . . . Many of these LDS officials decline to use their authorized allowances.
"However, on occasion church presidents have personally benefitted from church finances by simply cancelling their indebtedness to church funds. On 23 April 1834 a revelation ended the Kirtland United Order and distributed its real estate assets among Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, Frederick G. Williams, Martin Harris, Newel K. Whitney, and John Johnson. The revelation said, 'it is my will that you shall pay all your debts' (D&C 104:78). However, Joseph Smith privately required Whitney to balance 'in full without any value recd.' the $1,151.31 Whitney had loaned to the prophet, as well as $2,484.22 of the other men's debts to Whitney. Bishop Whitney had to personally absorb this loss 'because Joseph said it must be done.' . . .
"The next two church presidents did likewise. Three weeks before he died in August 1877, Brigham Young obtained a cancellation of his debts in Ogden, Utah, extending back to 1849.91 Despite the previously stated objections of his own counselor, John Taylor also persuaded the Quorum of Twelve Apostles in 1880 to allow him a $10,000 claim for sugar machinery, which claim Brigham Young had refused since 1853. . . ." _____
Allowing Tithing Monies to Be Loaned to Prominent Mormons
"By contrast, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, and Joseph F. Smith did not use their office as church president to cancel their personal indebtedness, yet they allowed tithing funds to serve as a loan pool for prominent Mormons. In a sharply worded report in 1911, the church auditors noted: 'If certain members of the Church are entitled to borrow money for private ends, is this not a right of all members, for the same purpose? If this policy is admitted, would it not result in confusion, jealousy, loss and consequent wrong?" The committee observed that "the debtors frequently look upon their obligations as being due to a rich and indulgent relative, to be paid (if at all) at their own convenience.' Among the debtors was Apostle Heber J. Grant for a 'cash loan of $34,000.' In 1913 the committee renewed the subject of church loans to individuals, and commented that 'it is not within the purview of the Trustee-in-Trust to make advances of this kind . . . And any loans made on plain notes are legally uncollectible.' . . .
"It is important to recognize that general authorities borrowed from the church's general fund because their living allowances were insufficient to meet their needs. In 1910 Apostle Anthony W. Ivins recorded that the following members of the Twelve were in debt: Francis M. Lyman, George Albert Smith, Heber J. Grant, Rudger Clawson, Hyrum M. Smith, George F. Richards, and David O. McKay.94Grant was the most candid about his apostolic indebtedness: 'A president of the stake begged and pleaded with me to quit paying tithing. He said I did not owe any tithing until I got out of debt. Would not that have been a fine record for a man who now stands as president of the Church, not to have paid tithing for thirty-two years?' . . ." _____
General Authorities Declare Legal Bankruptcy Rather Than Pay Their Personal Debts
"Many general authorities repaid their debts after long years of effort, while others died in debt. On the other hand, some chose to declare legal bankruptcy. In 1842 Joseph Smith, his counselor Sidney Rigdon, Presiding Patriarch Hyrum Smith, and Presiding bishop-designate Vinson Knight sought relief from their indebtedness by filing for bankruptcy. . . . Seventy's president J. Golden Kimball was the next current general authority who filed for bankruptcy. In 1899 he had $11,126 in debts but only $2,031 in assets. . . . By 1902 the First Presidency was unwilling for a member of the Presidency or Twelve to declare public bankruptcy, and Apostle Reed Smoot quietly persuaded the creditors of John W. Taylor to settle the apostle's $140,000 debts at ten cents on the dollar. . . ." _____
General Authority Acceptance of Stock to Pay Personal Debts Drains Church Finances
"On 27 December 1919 recently sustained Heber J. Grant obtained the approval of his counselors to accept $30,000 worth of his stock (at par) in the Utah-Implement Vehicle Company to cancel loans he received as an apostle from the Trustee-in-Trust. . . . However, accepting stock to cancel personal loans caused enormous losses to the church during Grant's administration. In 1930 first counselor Anthony W. Ivins computed that the church lost $900,000 in personal loans to Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley. Upon his appointment as second counselor in the First Presidency in 1925, Nibley had used stocks and bonds to repay his indebtedness to the church. . . ." _____
http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpt...
Well i don,t know, but i think i would become a Mormon if polygamy was enforced, but they can not enforce polygamy because the book of Mormon forbids it, that is why i only believe in the Bible.
While the scriptures do not lean toward polygamy, in many cases it was excepted , even in the early Church it is evident that some of the gentiles who were part of the Christian Church probably had more than one wife.
2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
The religious leaders lies about this scripture just like some of the religions lie about appointing some one in position as an elder.
Elders were not appointed, that is just what they were, and because of what they were they were appointed to the office of biship or deacon, the ones who had more than one wife was not qualified.
So we have a bunch of religions bashing each other, each one of them trying to be the mister Clean.
In my view any religion is part of the great whore that is talked about in rev that sits upon many waters,i believe the scripture tells us to come out of this mystery Babylon.
and live by faith and not by religion.
If "clergy" is defined broad enough to include Lds' general authorities, of course they pay them!
If "clergy" is defined narrow enough to only focus on bishops -- who, btw, already work 40-50 hours a week aside from interrogating people if they should enter the temple or not -- then even that is a distorted definition.
Lds bishops are more like lay people on steroids.
IOW, Lds HAVE NO TRADITIONAL "CLERGY"...So, of course they have no "paid" ones!
Saundra provides a riddle in which if you don't know the ins and outs of the Mormon church, you get lost in their "maze."
Why ask me you when you should be asking your LDS wife.
I’m asking you, since you posted it on an open forum. You made a claim, a denigrating claim against Christianity. Support it IF you can.
I rather enjoy your flails and thrashes in a petulant and peurile attempt to undermine my position by continuing in your failed attempts to make it personal.
IOW, THANKS!
You got NOTHING!
The point was you already deny the truth!
Ah, I see resty's swimming in the river of denial - a mile wide and a half-inch deep.
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