Pope John Paul II's blood to be relic in Polish church

AP ^ | 02/01/2011 | MONIKA SCISLOWSKA

[RnMomof7]

A vial containing blood drawn from Pope John Paul II shortly before he died will be installed as a relic in a Polish church soon after his beatification later this year, an official said Monday. Piotr Sionko, the spokesman for the John Paul II Center, said the vial will be encased in crystal and built into the altar of a church in the southern city of Krakow that is opening in May. The exact date of the opening is not yet known, but it should be shortly after John Paul's beatification at the Vatican on May 1........... "It was the cardinal's proposal," Sionko said. "He is of the opinion that this is the most precious relic of John Paul II and should be the focal point of the church." .........

"The idea of displaying the pope's relics has met with some reservations, even inside the Catholic Church. "The tradition of relics comes from medieval practices of teaching the Bible through images and symbols," said the Rev. Krzysztof Madel, a Jesuit priest in Nowy Sacz who has publicly questioned the usefulness of displaying John Paul's blood. "But in today's rationalized world the message should rather come through teaching about someone's life." After John Paul's death, some Polish officials said they hoped John Paul's heart would be removed from his body and returned to his homeland for burial. However, church officials dismissed any possibility of dismembering the body, saying the age had passed for that practice. Dziwisz said Friday that he has always been against dividing of the body, but that "relics have always existed and will always exist."

[Cronos]

1 Corinthians 10:16–17 points to the Real Presence: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread." Now ask yourself: What must the cup and the bread be to make possible this participation in the blood and body of Christ? The most obvious and logical answer is that the bread and cup of wine must really be the body and blood of Christ.

Paul explicitly confirms the Real Presence when he writes: "You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons" (10:21).

[RnMomof7]

I personally have seen a friend healed with a St Benedict relic card of a finger sprain. He felt the sensation after the prayer then totally healed hours later. It’s in Him with Him in the Unity of The Holy Spirit. Praise Jesus!

So then you would say relics heal?

[RnMomof7]

Paul explicitly confirms the Real Presence when he writes: "You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons" (10:21).

So then maybe the cup that has been consecrated by a priest that is a chils molester is really a cup of demons then?

[RnMomof7]

What did Jesus call it as it was passed? He called it the fruit of the vine ....so which is true?

Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

[CynicalBear]

>> 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.<<

Those who call themselves Catholic who belong to the Roman Catholic Church would have us believe that Jesus was talking about his physical flesh. This is in direct contradiction to Jesus own teaching.

Let’s put the verse back into context and deal with what Jesus really told His apostles and us.

John 6:54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Now let’s go to the next verse where Jesus begins to explain.

57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.

Notice where He said “this is the bread which came down out of heaven? Jesus was not talking about His physical flesh. Jesus said His words are spirit, not flesh.

John 6:63 The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life,

It’s the spirit that giveth life, not the flesh.

2 Cor. 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Now let Jesus Himself tell us what that “bread” is.

Jesus puts the analogy into perspective by pointing to the metaphor of the manna from heaven which was a symbol of Jesus coming from heaven.

John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Jesus Himself tells us that He is that bread which came down from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Do a study on the symbolism of bread, including unleavened bread, throughout the bible starting with the manna in the desert and you will understand that the focus on Jesus physical flesh is nothing more then a pagan practice.

[RnMomof7]

Oh yes it does. The Church recognizes three types of relics. A 1st Class Relic consists of a part of the Saint, such as a bone, hair, etc..., and the instruments of Christ's Passion. The 2nd Class Relic consists of something that was owned by the Saint or instruments of torture that was used against a martyr. The 3rd Class Relic consists of something that has been touched to a 1st or 2nd Class Relic.

I know this may come as a shock, but the saved do not care what Rome says about anything..

A visit to the holy land can be and is for many of the saved an opportunity to know Christ better and have the WORD OF GOD come alive for them in a new and visual way

A trip to the Holy Land is on my bucket list ..( if i can ever save the money for a good tour ) as well as a trip to the land of the reformation .. and neither trip has one thing to do with relics

[RnMomof7]

Do a study on the symbolism of bread, including unleavened bread, throughout the bible starting with the manna in the desert and you will understand that the focus on Jesus physical flesh is nothing more then a pagan practice.

They are not allowed to.. they MUST accept whatever the church says..

"The blind lead the blind and they both fall into the pit"

[Notwithstanding]

We don’t exclude sinners from the Church - as a matter of fact, we expect that only sinners will be members of the Church, and we partake in the sacrament of confession and reconciliation regularly because we are so sinful and will always be sinful.

We also don’t know what God does with the sacramental actions done by a man who commits vile acts and is not in a state of grace, but we trust in God’s mercy and do not hold the sins of the priest against the unwitting believer who thinks he is worthily partaking in communion.

God can do anything. Don’t you think?

[Notwithstanding]

One can read for oneself from the Gospel of John that the doubters in the bread of life discourse doubted because they took Jesus literally and found it offensive and unbelievable that Jesus would offer His own flesh to eat:

John 52-56:

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

_______________________

Because there were so many doubters, Jesus kept repeating the fact that His real flesh was real food and must really be eaten.

Even today there are doubters who reject His words.

______________________

...the Freepers began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”...

[Cronos]

Chilli molster!

[Judith Anne]

Anyone who knew no better than that about scapulars would certainly not be considered a competent religion teacher in any Catholic parish. That is superstition, a sin.

[CynicalBear]

>>”The blind lead the blind and they both fall into the pit”<<

There are many who call themselves Catholic who really don’t know what the scripture really teaches. Just a few days ago I encountered one who didn’t know that when the RCC says “immaculate conception” they mean that Mary was born without sin like Jesus was which is totally unscriptural.

We need to pray for them and keep in contact to work with the Spirit to draw them into truth.

[Natural Law]

"I know this may come as a shock, but the saved do not care what Rome says about anything.."

If that is the case why do you spend so very much of your time comparing and contrasting your little denomination to the Church?

What I can observe is that you do venerate and respect relics. Your only issue is the degree and passion with which Chistians do it. You probably wouldn't use the marble slab in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher as a picnic table or rinse your socks and undies in the pool at Bethesda. But why respect them if they aren't more than just old rocks, right?

[Cronos]

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne,

Revelations 5:6 This clearly shows that the lamb, i.e. Christ standing at the center of the Throne, standing as though he had been slain

Jesus, who is eternally our priest. The priest must offer sacrifice. Christ's eternal sacrifice is himself. This is why he appears in the book of Revelation as a lamb

For all eternity i.e. outside time Jesus Christ, who is outside of time appeals to the work of the cross, interceding for us (Rom 8:34), and giving us the graces of Calvary

The Mass is a participation in this one heavenly offering. The risen Christ is present on the altar as a living sacrifice. Christ words at the Last Supper are words of sacrifice, "This is my body . . . this is my blood . . . given up for you."

Christ’s bloody sacrifice on Calvary took place once, and it will never be repeated.Jesus’ offering was perfect, efficacious, and eternal.

The last supper was NOT JUST a memorial meal. It was NOT just Passover as is clear in Jesus' words

The Eucharist is given to us sacramentally in the signs of bread and wine that were instituted by Christ at the Passover supper with the words: "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me. . . . This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood" (Lk. 22:19–20; 1 Cor. 11:24–25).

Do note that the Holy Spirit makes present the mystery of Christ, not the priest.

The Epiclesis ("invocation upon") is the intercession in which the priest begs the Father to send the Holy Spirit the Sanctifier, so that the offerings may become the body and blood of Christ and that the faithful by receiving them, may themselves become a living offering to God.23

In the epiclesis, the Church asks the Father to send his Holy Spirit (or the power of his blessing178) on the bread and wine, so that by his power they may become the body and blood of Jesus Christ and so that those who take part in the Eucharist may be one body and one spirit

Do note that the ritual and the belief in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is shared by Catholics, Orthodox, Copts, Armenians, Assyrians, even Lutherans (yes, there is a difference in the 'how' but Lutherans too believe that Christ's body and blood are REALLY present in the Eucharist), so this is not just "a Catholic thing".

This ritual is also something practised by the earliest of all Christians.

You can refer the Didache written in AD 70 (Apostolic Times) which says Assemble on the Lord’s day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist....Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice ...For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, ‘Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations’

From the Catechism:

by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

It is called: Eucharist, because it is an action of thanksgiving to God. the Greek words eucharistein (Luke 22:19 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me. --> 1 Cor 11:24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me)

and eulogein (Mt 26:26 26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” --> Mk 14:22 22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body) recall the Jewish blessings that proclaim - especially during a meal - God's works: creation, redemption, and sanctification.

9 The Lord's Supper, because of its connection with the supper which the Lord took with his disciples on the eve of his Passion and because it anticipates the wedding feast of the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem (1 Cor 11:20 20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, --> Rev 19:9 9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

The Breaking of Bread, because Jesus used this rite, part of a Jewish meat when as master of the table he blessed and distributed the bread (Mt 14:19 19 And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people. --> Mt 15:36 36 Then he took the seven loaves and the fish, and when he had given thanks, he broke them and gave them to the disciples, and they in turn to the people.)

It is by this action that his disciples will recognize him after his Resurrection (Lk 24:13-35 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.)

and it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies (Acts 2:42 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. --> Acts 2:46 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts --> Acts 20:7 7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. --> Acts 20:11 Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left.

by doing so they signified that all who eat the one broken bread, Christ, enter into communion with him and form but one body in him (1 Cor 10:16-17 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

This is called The Holy Sacrifice because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering. the terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, "sacrifice of praise," spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used (as this is the self-same ONE-time Sacrifice of Christ)

• Heb 13:15; ⇒ Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that openly profess his name.
• 1 Pet 25; ⇒ but the word of the Lord endures forever And this is the word that was preached to you
• Ps 116:13, ⇒ I will lift up the cup of salvation and call on the name of the LORD.
• Ps 116:17; ⇒ I will sacrifice a thank offering to you and call on the name of the LORD.
• Mal 1:11 My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.
  
  since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.
  
  
  From the beginning the Church has been faithful to the Lord's command. of the Church of Jerusalem it is written:

  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.... Day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous heart
  
  Acts 2:42-46

  The liturgy of the Eucharist unfolds according to a fundamental structure which has been preserved throughout the centuries down to our own day. It displays two great parts that form a fundamental unity:
  
  1. the gathering, the liturgy of the Word, with readings, homily and general intercessions;
  2. the liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the consecratory thanksgiving, and communion
  The liturgy of the Word and liturgy of the Eucharist together form "one single act of worship".
  
  The Eucharistic table set for us is the table both of the Word of God and of the Body of the Lord.
  
  Is this not the same movement as the Paschal meal of the risen Jesus with his disciples? Walking with them he explained the Scriptures to them; sitting with them at table "he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. Lk 24:13-35

  On the Road to Emmaus

   ¹³ Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles^[a] from Jerusalem. ¹⁴ They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. ¹⁵ As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; ¹⁶ but they were kept from recognizing him.

   ¹⁷ He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

     They stood still, their faces downcast. ¹⁸ One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

     ¹⁹ “What things?” he asked.

     “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. ²⁰ The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; ²¹ but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. ²² In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning ²³ but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. ²⁴ Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

   ²⁵ He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! ²⁶ Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” ²⁷ And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

   ²⁸ As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. ²⁹ But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

   ³⁰ When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. ³¹ Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. ³² They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

   ³³ They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together ³⁴ and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” ³⁵ Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

[Notwithstanding]

Not fair!

[Notwithstanding]

[Cronos]

“but the saved do not care what Rome says about anything.” —> yet you seem to care quite a lot, going by your post history. Are you one of the shaved? Then why do you care so much about what “Rome” says?

[RnMomof7]

We don’t exclude sinners from the Church - as a matter of fact, we expect that only sinners will be members of the Church, and we partake in the sacrament of confession and reconciliation regularly because we are so sinful and will always be sinful.

Catholics believe they are saved by /through the church..

Protestants see the church as the assembly of the saved.

All men are sinners, that is why we need a Savior

We also don’t know what God does with the sacramental actions done by a man who commits vile acts and is not in a state of grace, but we trust in God’s mercy and do not hold the sins of the priest against the unwitting believer who thinks he is worthily partaking in communion.

Trent says that the validity of the sacrament is dependent on the intent of the priest..

[Religion Moderator]

“but the saved do not care what Rome says about anything.” —> yet you seem to care quite a lot, going by your post history. Are you one of the shaved?

I laughed so hard at that typo, I couldn't see.

[Cronos]

:-P

Actually, it wasn't a typo. I just love the joke from the 80s british serial "Mind your language" where Ali, the Pakistani guy sings "God Shave the Ko-een"