Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
rotflolol!
lolol. Yeah. xzins. The Lutheran.
Read the link I gave you which illustrates Luther's belief in double predestination.
Newsflash. Double predestination was the orthodox teaching of most of the church until Trent. Augustine taught it. It was the Pelagians who dismissed it.
50% of 50% of Evangelicals considered themselves Republican or leaned toward that party, 34% Democratic or leaned thereto; 9% Independents. 7.5http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#
48% of Catholics considered themselves Democrats or leaned toward that party, 33% Republican or leaned thereto; 10% Independent. ^7.5
65% of Jews and 63% of Muslims considered themselves Democrats or leaned toward that party, 23% 11%, respectively, Republican or leaned thereto ^7.5
88% of Evangelicals voted for Sen. McCain in 2008, compared to just 11% for Sen. Obama. 40% of Evangelicals said it was because of the candidate’s position on moral issues. Only 9% of other voters listed that as their driving reason. Other significant reasons for Evangelical voters included their candidate’s political experience (23%) and his character (15%). http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=321
Based upon exit polling, 74 percent of Evangelicals voted for McCain in 2008, with 25 percent for Obama. (Another measure put the percentage of evangelicals at 23 percent, with 73 percent voting for McCain, 26 percent for Obama.) http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=367
Catholics overall supported Obama over McCain by a nine-point margin (54% vs. 45%) http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=367
52% of white Catholics who were regular Mass-attenders voted for McCain, 47% for Obama, while non-practicing Catholics went 61% to 37% for the latter. Just 17% of Evangelicals who attended church once a week supported Obama, while 37% of white evangelicals who attended services less frequently supported him. http://pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-Church-Attendance-Affects-Religious-Voting-Patterns.aspx
Only 20% of observant white evangelicals voted for Obama, based upon 2008 Pew research exit polls, with 40% of observant white Catholics joining them, along with 94% of black Protestants overall. http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1697/exit-poll-election-support-among-religious-groups
Overall, 43% of people who attended religious services once a week or more supported Obama. http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=367
39% U.S. Catholics are Hispanic, with 67% of Latinos voting for Obama over McCain. USCCB Committee on Hispanic Affairs. Hispanic Ministry at the Turn of the New Millennium, 1999 ^
After 100 days in office, 66% of Catholics, including a majority of white, non-Hispanic Catholics (55%), said they approved of Obama's job performance as president. Catholics are much more supportive of the president than are white evangelical Protestants, 33% of whom approved http://people-press.org/report/509/obama-at-100-days
37% of Catholics were registered as Democrats in 2007, 27% Republican, and 31% as Independents. Aggregated Pew Research Surveys, 2007. http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=295#ideology
77 percent of Black Protestants said they vote Democratic, whether they attended weekly services or not. 2008 The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. http://www.newsweek.com/id/142538
Protestants make up approx. 50% of all voters, while Catholics make up 19.9% By group: Baptists at 12.9%, Methodist 8.2%, Lutheran 3.9%, Presbyterian 2.5%, Jewish 2.3%, Episcopalian 1.7% Mormons 1.4%. http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html
Mississippi (33%), Alabama, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Kentucky have the 5 highest percentages of S. Baptist, while Rhode Island (52%), Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York have the 5 highest percentages of Catholics. http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html
The population of Massachusetts ranks as the most liberal, with Boston and Cambridge being the most liberal large cities (100,000 or more), followed by California. http://www.epodunk.com/top10/liberal/index.html
The 16 most Catholic states contain 24 of the most liberal cities. Excluding (Maryland 26th), predominately Roman Catholic states contain all but one (Seattle WA) of the 30 most liberal cities. Of states in which S. Baptists are the single largest denomination none (of the 30 cities) were found (the term “liberal” being defined according to individual contributions to PACs, election returns and the number of homosexual households: http://www.epodunk.com/top10/liberal/index.html http://www.glenmary.org/grc/RCMS_2000/Catholic_findings.htm , http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html.
10% of Evangelical Protestants reside in the NE, 23% in the Midwest, 50% in the South, and 17% in the West. Catholics: 29% NE, 24% Midwest, 24% in the South, 23% in the West. “Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream,” Pew Research Center, 2007. http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#
31% of Catholics made less than $30,000 per year, while 19% made $100,000 or more (National average: 31% and 18% respectively) . The figures for Evangelical Protestants were 34% and 13%. Hindus and Jews had the highest income levels. [Contrary to “prosperity preachers, the gospel does not promise or exclude material prosperity, but spiritual blessing, while enabling contentment, joy and victory in whatever condition, and that needs will be met as we trust and obey Christ.] http://pewforum.org/Income-Distribution-Within-US-Religious-Groups.aspx
(See HERE for Table of casual Religio-Political relations. And HERE for Correlation between faith, ideology, politics, environment, money.)
Ultimately, single/double/triple...it's all the same thing. In single predestination, God gives some men grace and doesn't give other men grace. Therefore, those who do not receive grace will not come to Him in repentance and faith , believe and be saved. Those given grace, will. And grace is a free gift of God, not of works, lest we boast.
Either men are written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world, or they are not. If they are there, the Holy Spirit will lead them to faith. If they are not there, they will not want to be led to faith. And they won't be.
As God wills.
Here's Luther on predestination...
"Furthermore, I have the comfortable certainty that I please God, not by reason of the merit of my works, but by reason of His merciful favour promised to me; so that, if I work too little, or badly, He does not impute it to me, but with fatherly compassion pardons me and makes me better. This is the glorying of all the saints in their God." -- Martin Luther, "Bondage of the Will" -- (xviii) Of the comfort of knowing that salvation does not depend on free-will' (783) "I frankly confess that, for myself, even if it could be, I should not want 'free-will' to be given me, nor anything to be left in my own hands to enable me to endeavour after salvation; not merely because in face of so many dangers, and adversities, and assaults of devils, I could not stand my ground and hold fast my 'free-will' (for one devil is stronger than all men, and on these terms no man could be saved) ; but because, even were there no dangers, adversities, or devils, I should still be forced to labour with no guarantee of success, and to beat my fists at the air. If I lived and worked to all eternity, my conscience would never reach comfortable certainty as to how much it must do to satisfy God, Whatever work I had done, there would still be a nagging doubt' as to whether it pleased God, or whether He required something more. The experience of all who seek righteousness by works proves that; and I learned it well enough myself over a period of many years, to my own great hurt. But now that God has taken my salvation out of the control of my own will, and put it under the control of His, and promised to save me, not according to my working or running, but according to His own grace and mercy, I have the comfort¬able certainty that He is faithful and will not lie to me, and that He is also great and powerful, so that no devils or opposition can break Him or pluck me from Him. `No one,´ He says, `shall pluck them out of my hand, because my Father which gave them me is greater than all´ (John 10.28-29). Thus it is that, if not all, yet some, indeed many, are saved; whereas, by the power of ´free-will´ none at all could be saved, but every one of us would perish.
ARUANAN: Who disagreed and claimed it did not?
Cronos and Markbsnr have denied that Luther taught double predestination.
Therefore I was surprised by your agreement with my posts stating Luther did indeed believe in a double predestination, as evidenced by your quote.
I'm delighted. May this be the first of many theological agreements between us. (wink wink nudge nudge)
Once again, a terrific post filled with important information. Thanks again.
Thank you for posting this. I admired Tony Snow very much and was grieved when he died. He was an amazing Christian and I pray for the same grace he had if my time comes to endure the same trials as he.
“”The Reformation gave us wood chippers and fuzzy logic generators which are useful in their own way today.””
Spot on,my friend!
As The late Hilaire Belloc rightfully compares the reformation with Mohammed
“There is thus a very great deal in common between the enthusiasm
with which Mohammed’s teaching attacked the priesthood, the Mass and the
sacraments, and the enthusiasm with which Calvinism, the central motive
force of the Reformation, did the same. As we all know, the new teaching
relaxed the marriage laws_but in practice this did not affect the mass of
his followers who still remained monogamous. It made divorce as easy as
possible, for the sacramental idea of marriage disappeared. It insisted
upon the equality of men, and it necessarily had that further factor in
which it resembled Calvinism the sense of predestination, the sense of
fate; of what the followers of John Knox were always calling “the
immutable decrees of God.”-Hilaire Belloc
THANKS TONS.
However, one has the impression that we could have
100% accurate, 100% actuarial stats from the whole population of the planet—such as Sweden etc.—and the RC’s would still wail and whine . . . if they touched the facts in the least degree whatsoever, at all.
They just don’t seem the least bit seriously ready or willing to deal with truth and facts on such scores.
More relevant: http://www.barna.org/faith-spirituality/435-diversity-of-faith-in-various-us-cities
http://www.barna.org/faith-spirituality/100-catholics-have-become-mainstream-america
http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Statistical_Correlations.html
One further question: are you against the death penalty?
Hmm, somebody else who has no clue about the history of the Scriptures. Suggest that you look it up. You may be surprised when you compare it to your platitudes.
Might want to use that Windex to clean your vision...it’s obviously off.
Yup, all those darn bugs.
When one does not consider God's Word as The Final Authority, there is a lot they don't SEE or KNOW.
There is no Christian who does not consider the Word of God as the final authority. And there are none who consider Calvin to be any sort of authority.
Yes indeed. Jesus answered the question of who are his brothers.
“Protestants make up approx. 50% of all voters, while Catholics make up 19.9%””
If this is true it seems it’s the protestant vote by shear numbers that elected Obama.
Regardless,I doubt the world would be much different with Mc Cain- both candidates were bad.
Also, not everyone who labels themselves a professing Catholic and Protestant lives a moral Christian life
The stats you posted really don’t mean much,dear friend
No.
14 Other boats came from Tiberias near the place where they had eaten the bread when the Lord gave thanks. 24 When the crowd saw that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they themselves got into boats and came to Capernaum looking for Jesus. 25 And when they found him across the sea they said to him, "Rabbi, when did you get here?" 26 Jesus answered them and said, "Amen, amen, I say to you, you are looking for me not because you saw signs but because you ate the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, 15 which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal." 28 So they said to him, "What can we do to accomplish the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent."
30 So they said to him, "What sign can you do, that we may see and believe in you? What can you do? 31 16 Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written: 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'" 32 So Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." 34 So they said to him, "Sir, give us this bread always." 35 17 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. 36 But I told you that although you have seen (me), you do not believe. 37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day.
40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day." 41 The Jews murmured about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven," 42 and they said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say, 'I have come down from heaven'?" 43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Stop murmuring 18 among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets: 'They shall all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; 50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." 52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?" 53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."
59 These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60 20 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" 61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." 66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
67 Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?" 68 Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God." 70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?" 71 He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.
You haved studied Scripture. You know these verses. I believe you to be sincere, almost alone among your FR companions. I ask that you consider these.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.