Latter-day Saints aren't Christians?

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[Paragon Defender]

Latter-day Saints aren't Christians?

 

 

 

Criticism

Critics claim that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not "Christian."

A related claim is that the Church has only recently begun to portray itself as "Christian" in order to gain adherents.

See also: Source(s) of the criticism

 

 

Response

It is evident from what has been said, that the Mormons, as such, can have no part or lot in the religion of Jesus Christ—and we do not see how any one can be their friend, (as Mormons,) without being an enemy to God.

—James M’Chesney, An Antidote To Mormonism, revised by G. J. Bennet (New York, NY: Burnett & Pollard, 1838), 49. off-site Full title

LDS Not Excluded by Belief or Practice

Main article: "Mormons" worship a "different Jesus"?

When critics make the claim that LDS are not Christian, they typically will present a laundry list of doctrines and practices that they believe put LDS outside the category of "Christian." At its base, this claim is an excellent example of the No true Scotsman fallacy.

There are two problems with such lists. The first, and most important, is that the original and enduring meaning of "Christian" has been a person or group whose beliefs or practices are founded on the life and/or teachings of Christ. That is, all groups whose religion is founded on Jesus of Nazareth have been classified as Christian since the term was first coined in the first century, regardless of specific beliefs and practices. "Christian" has always included such wildly diverse groups as the Ebionites, the Marcionites, and the Christian Gnostics of ancient times, along with Unitarians and Coptic Christians in modern times. Critics may believe that LDS are "false Christians" or "heretical Christians" or "hell-bound Christians," seeing that such terms are subjective and without standard definitions, but neither belief nor practice can exclude any group from the family of Christian religions and denominations if that group claims to be founded on the life or teachings of the first-century Jesus of Nazareth.

The second problem with the critics' list is that their list of objectionable beliefs and practices used to exclude LDS from the Christian family are lists of beliefs and practices that are found in other groups that are clearly classified as Christian. The claimed bases for the charge that the LDS are not Christians include:

• LDS do not accept creedal Trinitarianism as set out by the Nicene creed. This means that they conceive of Jesus and Satan as being spiritual ' siblings' in terms of their ultimate origin, if not their nature or religious status.
• Because of different understandings about God, some Christian critics accuse the LDS of worshipping a different Jesus
• LDS have doctrines which differ from many forms of "traditional" Christianity:
  • premortal existence
  • vicarious work for the dead
  • eternal marriage and families
  • three degrees of glory
  • Deification of man {theosis}
• LDS use additional scripture with the Bible
• LDS do not accept creatio ex nihilo
• LDS do not accept the traditional view of original sin
• LDS heed the teachings of Joseph Smith and other modern prophets
• LDS reject such doctrines as predestination to salvation or damnation

Unfortunately for the critic, all of these doctrinal differences have been held not just by the LDS, but by other Christians as well, including the early Christians of the first and second centuries.^[1] These Christians:

• were not Trinitarians, since the creeds were not yet formulated
• did not teach creatio ex nihilo
• did not consider "the Bible" to be the sole authoritative scripture, since it was not compiled until centuries later
• considered some writings to be authoritative which many modern Christians now reject
• taught theosis, or human deification through Christ
• followed living prophets (the apostles)

One might debate whether these Christians were correct or complete in their beliefs, but can the critics seriously exclude them from the family of Christians?^[2]

The critics essentially create a definition of "Christian" that includes their brand of Christianity, and excludes others with whom they disagree.

LDS Classified as Christian

The assertion that Latter-day Saints are not Christian has at its base the idea that the Latter-day Saints don't meet the definition of the word "Christian." But the meanings of words are determined by usage and acceptance. If a definition is widespread (used by many people), persistent (used over a long period of time), and established (accepted by individuals and organizations that are respected and assumed to be knowledgeable) then we can confidently state that the definition is correct and accurate.

The attempt to define "Christian" in such a way as to exclude Latter-day Saints (and many other groups that are generally considered to be some kind of Christian denomination or religion) is really the recent work of a minority group within Protestantism. The nearly-universal and nearly-2000-year-old usage of the word "Christian" has clearly included unorthodox groups that disagree, sometimes sharply, with the teachings and practices of those who claim to be able to define Latter-day Saints out of the Christian fold.

The following are some organizations and resources that classify The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as Christian. The range of sources from encyclopedias to media outlets to government organizations supports the fact that the definition of "Christian" includes Latter-day Saints.

• Yahoo Directory: "Christian Denominations and Sects" off-site

• adherents.com: "Largest Branches of Christianity in the U.S." off-site

• beliefnet: "Faiths and Practices" index off-site

• MSN Encarta encyclopedia: "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" off-site

• RSN (Religion New Service): Religion Backgrounders off-site

• PBS (Public Broadcasting Service): "The Church: A Brief History" off-site

• LaborLawTalk dictionary off-site

• Encyclopedia Britannia Online off-site

• BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) off-site

• World Council of Churches (WCC): Churches off-site

• National Council of Churches (NCC): National Council of Churches’ 2005 "Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches." off-site

• United States Department of State: International Religious Freedom Report 2004 (Tonga) off-site

Saints claim to be Christian only recently?

This claim is absurd. The critics depend on their audience not knowing much about LDS history for this claim. Enemies and members of the Church have long known that Church members consider themselves "Christian" (italics added in all cases):

1830s

1830

“They call themselves the church of Christ, and the only church of Christ. All professing Christians who do not adhere to their system, they consider as formalists; ‘having the form of Godliness, but denying the power’”.^[3]

1831

“Old Joe . . . and several others . . . admitted [that the new faith] was an improvement in Christianity”.^[4]

1832

The Mormonites “say the Millennium is soon to commence and that Christ is to come personally and take up His residence with them. . . . In its general principles this sect entirely coincide with others which have from time to time sprung up in Christendom”. ^[5]

1833

There is “a civil war between the Mormonites and their brother Christians”. ^[6]

1834

"Brother Joseph . . . went on to show the brethren how wicked and unchristianlike such conduct [among them] appeared before the eyes of truth and justice”.^[7]

April 1834

The only name given under heaven, whereby man can be saved, is Jesus Christ. Men in days of old heard the glad tidings, that the Son of Man would come in the fulness of his own time, to make intercession for the children of men, and suffer, the just, for the unjust, and rise from the dead, that the bands of the temporal death might be broken, that the resurrection might pass upon all men, that they might stand in the presence of God to be judged according to their works.—These glad tidings were communicated from heaven to earth, by the ministering of holy angels and by the voice of the living God. Thousands have looked forward with an eye of faith, and a confidence unshaken in the promises of God, to the time when the great and last sacrifice should be made for fallen man. Many have rejoiced to see the day of the Son of Man, have seen it, and were glad; and have fallen asleep after obtaining the promise, that they should see God in the flesh and should reign with him on the earth a thousand years....The news that the gospel brought in days of old, was, that Jesus Christ would come into the world; that he would suffer according to the flesh; that he would rise from the dead, and thereby redeem his people from the power of the grave.^[8]

1835

“the doctrine promulgated by the ‘latter day Christians’ in the newly discovered Bible”.^[9]

1836

“This morning a minister from Conne[c]ticut by the name of John W. Olived called at my house . . . . [He] asked me wherein we differ from other Christian denomination[s]”.^[10]

1836

“they have the appearance of being devout Christians. . . . They call themselves ‘Latter-day Saints,’ and profess to be the only true church, to have the only gospel order, consisting of apostles, elders, bishops, etc., etc., which several orders of the Christian hierarchy have been distinctly brought to light in the Book of Mormon”.^[11]

1837

“a large society of Christians who style themselves ‘Latter-day Saints’ or Mormons.” (Painesville Republican, vol. 1, no. 31, 15 June 1837).

1838

"The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it".^[12]

1839

"This sect took its rise, A. D. 1830, in the county of Ontario, and State of New York. In April of that year, the society was organized as a Christian Church".^[13]

1839

The Mormons “were singing a hymn as other good Christians are wont to do . . . . [One of them offered] a very good Christian prayer . . . . [which petitioned that the Mormons might have] Christian fortitude.” (Peoria Register and North-Western Gazetteer, vol. 3, no. 17, 27 July 1839)

1839: Benjamin Dobson to the editor, June 16, 1839, “The Mormons,” Peoria Register and North-Western Gazetteer (Peoria, Illinois) 3, no. 13 (27 July 1839). off-site

1840s

1840

“We want no religion but pure Christianity”.^[14]

1840

The heaven-born doctrines of christianity are so opposite to the vain, grovelling, and selfish sentiments of corrupt human nature, and the self-denying practices of genuine believers are so repugnant to the feelings of those whose nature is “earthly, sensual, and devilish,” that it is utterly unreasonable to suppose that anything like amity, concord or peace, can possibly exist between the church and the world. [John Taylor, Calumny Refuted and the Truth Defended (Liverpool: J. Tompkins, 1840), 1–12 off-site Full title]

1840

The citizens of Nauvoo are “a people, professing to be Christians.” (Quincy Whig, vol. 3, no. 13, 25 July 1840).

1840

The Mormons retain “many truths which are held in common by different denominations of Christians.” (The Alton Telegraph, vol. 5, no. 46, 14 November 1840).

1840

"We want no religion but pure Christianity." [Parley P. Pratt, Plain Facts (Manchester: W. R. Thomas, 1840), 5. off-site Full title]

1840

"If every friend to the cause of apostolic christianity, would subscribe and pay in advance for the above mentioned books [Book of Mormon, hymn books]...." [Anon., "Books!!!," Times and Seasons 1 no. 9 (July 1840), 139–40. off-site GospeLink (requires subscrip.) off-site

1841

“I understood from [the Mormons] as follows, . . . that they did not discard the Bible as used by other Christian sects”.^[15]]

1841

"why it is, that so many professing Christianity, and so many professing to reverence the sacred principles of our Constitution (which gives free religious toleration to all), have slandered, and persecuted this sect of Christians."^[16]

1841

"The object of our visit to your city is not to subvert any moral or truly Christian principle, or to promulgate any doctrine other than that which was advocated by Patriarchs, Prophets, Christ and the Apostles; which doctrine or gospel, we believe is the same invariable plan of salvation that it ever was, and that it ought to be taught, administered and obeyed in the present age, precisely as it was in the primitive or golden period of Christianity." [E. Snow and Benjamin Winchester, "An Address to the Citizens of Salem (Mass.) And Vicinity," Times and Seasons 2 no. 24 (1 October 1841), 574-76. off-site GospeLink (requires subscrip.) off-site]

1841

"Many of them have given up home and friends in obedience to what they consider the call of Christ, their Master.... The Mormons not only claim to be Christians, but the only Christians." [“The Mormons,” Auburn Journal and Advertiser (22 December 1841). off-site]

1842

“the great Christian city of Nauvoo”.^[17]

1842

[Mormons teach that] "no man can be a Christian, or be admitted into the kingdom of God, unless he is baptized by immersion by an authorized person." [R.T.M., “The Mormons,” Religious Monitor and Evangelical Repository (18January 1842): 345–46. off-site]

1842

Hyrum Smith is "one of the most pious and devout christians in the world." (New York Herald (19 February 1842); cited in Veritas, "The Mormon Prophets," Millennial Star 3 (May 1842): 8.)

1842

Mormons “are Christians in the fullest sense of the term, believing in the Old and New Testaments.” (The New York Herald, vol. 7, no. 419, 16 May 1842).

1842

Mormons are described as – “A Christian sect in Illinois.” (Alton Telegraph and Democratic Review, vol. 7, no. 25, 18 June 1842; emphasis in original).

1842

"All these letters and documents [about the Mormons] disclose a most extraordinary movement in human affairs. What they mean we can hardly tell, but is it not time for some great religious revolution, as radical as Luther's, to take place in the Christian world?...Unlike all other Christian sects, they adopt at once all the modern improvements of society, in art and literature; and from their singular religious faith give the highest enthusiasm to the movement at large. There is nothing odd, or singular, or absurd about them.” ("Wonderful Progress of Joe Smith, the Modern Mahomet.—Spread of the Mormon Faith, and a New Religious Revolution at Hand," N.Y. Herald (17 June 1842); emphasis added).^[18]

1842

"Mr. Whitney then asked if we acknowledged any to be Christians except those who embraced our doctrines and joined our church." (Orson Hyde letter, Times and Seasons, vol. 3, no. 18, 15 July 1842, 849).

1842

A Baptist complained that a Church preacher "declined making an honest confession of those peculiarities which separate them as widely from the Baptists, as from every other denomination of the christian church." ^[19]

1842

Wrote the Daily Sun of Cincinnati:

Whatever this new doctrine may be, it is extremely pleasing to the world, and death to the constituted church creeds of every name but that of Mormon. It is destined to spread, for every man that takes it upon him to speak in its favor, is fully competent to make out his case. One is very much surprised to see with what facility they prove their doctrine from the holy scriptures. Mr. Adams remarked, that he did not care whether a man believed the Book of Mormon or not, so that he came forward with a broken heart, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and in baptism for the remission of sins—let him come forth, and if God did not reveal to him the truths of the Book of Mormon, he need not believe it. [Anon., "Mormonism [Reprinted from the Daily Sun, Cincinnati]," Times and Seasons 4 no. 2 (1 December 1842), 28–29. off-site GospeLink (requires subscrip.) off-site

1842

"The Mormons were Christians in belief, and looked for the second Advent of Christ—when he shall come, surrounded by the angels of Heaven to dwell in person upon the earth....We confess that Mr. Winchester has changed our opinion of the sect; for we held them in contempt if not in abhorrence, from the representations we had read of them, whereas, if what Mr. Winchester states be true (and we have no reason to doubt him,) we can recognize them as professing Christians, tinged with peculiarities on particular points." [Anon., "Mormons, or Latter Day Saints," Times and Seasons 4 no. 2 (1 December 1842), 27–28. off-site GospeLink (requires subscrip.) Reprinted from the Baltimore Clipper. off-site]

1843

"So far we are agreed with other Christian denominations. They all preach faith and repentance. The gospel requires baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, which is the meaning of the word in the original language—namely, to bury or immerse".^[20]

1843

Joseph Smith, in a public discourse, compared the Mormons to other denominations of Christians. (New York Spectator, vol. 46, no. 46, 23 August 1843).

1844

The Mormons are “calling themselves Christians . . . . Christians, as they claim to be.” (The Warsaw Signal, NS no. 4, no. 121, 6 March 1844).

1844

“The [Saturday] Courier should for the sake of truth and consistency, strike its flag of neutrality in RELIGION, while it wages a war of extermination against the Mormons; the only sect in Christendom, who in this nineteenth century can exhibit the irresistible evidence of martyrdom, in support of its cause”.^[21]

1844

"On Sunday I was invited to give, in a public discourse, the points of difference between faith of the Latter-day Saints and other professors of [p.417] the Christian religion."^[22]

1850s

1853

Now, we ARE believers in the Bible, and in consequence of our unshaken faith in its precepts, doctrine, and prophecy, may be, attributed "the strangeness of our course," and the unwarrantable conduct of many towards this people. Come, my brother Presbyterian; come, my brother professors of every persuasion of long standing and popular distinction in the world, who are dubbed with the word "ORTHODOX;" come, we are all good Christians; I find no fault with you—why should you find fault with me?^[23]

1854

“Mormonites . . . . call themselves Christians, it is true” (The Daily Globe, vol. 6, no. 261, 5 October 1854).

1857

"Their religious teachers of Mormonism, preach to them, as they call it, "Christianity in its purity." (S[olomon] N. Carvalho, Incidents of Travel and Adventure in the Far West; with Col. Fremont's Last Expedition, chapter 22. off-site

1859

We, as Christians, are divided and subdivided into many systems varying in doctrinal points. This one says, "I am right;" and that one says, "I am right;" another rises up and varies, more or less, from the doctrines of the Church he has left, and says he is right.^[24]

1860s

1861

"…who is there that was not startled when he heard that a sect, affecting to be Christian beyond all other sects, which had sprung up in broad day from amidst the civilization of the United States…"^[25]

1863

Should you ask why we differ from other Christians...Are all this people, in the Scriptural sense, Christians? They should be. Do they all serve God with an undivided heart? They should. Many of them do, seeking daily to do his will.^[26]

1864

The Latter-day Saints differ from their Christian brethren.^[27]

1866

Now, we as Christians desire to be saved in the kingdom of God.^[28]

1866

President B. Young preached a very interesting and instructive discourse, in which he showed that professing Christians believe all that the Jews believe, which appertains to life and salvation, and have accepted principles in advance of the Jews, including faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; and that the Latter-day Saints receive all believed in by other professing Christians, appertaining to life and salvation, accepting, as a part of their religious faith, principles in advance of them which are taught in the Scriptures. He touched upon the history of the Jewish people, showing the penalties which they had incurred by disobedience to the commandments of God, and pointing to the promises made to the patriarchal fathers concerning them. And deduced that if the condition of professing Christians is to-day better than that of the Jews, for believing more of the revelations of God, so the condition of the Saints is preferable to that of the other inhabitants of Christendom, in accepting all the revelations which the Lord has been pleased to give. ^[29]

1866

"On one occasion one of the native brethren who had been persecuted, claimed his rights as a Swiss citizen, and the question was brought up in the Swiss Congress, Are the 'Mormons' Christians? After some discussion, the conclusion was arrived at that they were, and must accordingly be protected."^[30]

1870s

1870

Have you embraced truth, Latter-day Saints? Have you anything different from other Christians?^[31]

1871

If you should have visits here from those professing to be Christians, and they intimate a desire to preach to you, by all means invite them to do so. Accord to every reputable person who may visit you, and who may wish to occupy the stands of your meeting houses to preach to you, the privilege of doing so, no matter whether he be a Catholic, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Baptist, Free-will Baptist, Methodist, or whatever he may be; and if he wishes to speak to your children let him do so. Of course you have the power to correct whatever false teachings or impressions, if any, your children may hear or receive. I say to parents, place your children, as far as you [p.196] have an opportunity to do so, in a position or situation to learn everything in the world that is worth learning. You will probably have what is called a Christian Church here; they will not admit that we are Christians, but they cannot think us further from the plan of salvation as revealed from heaven than we know them to be, so we are even on that ground, as far as it goes.^[32]

We are preaching to the people far and near; our Elders are traveling through the earth; strangers are coming here, and we are declaring to them that the Gospel of the Son of God is true. Whether they believe or not, it is no matter. That book (the Bible)contains the words of the Almighty…. I know of the bright promises which he gave to his disciples anciently. I live in the possession of them, and glory in them and in the cross of Christ, and in the beauty and holiness that he has revealed for the salvation and exaltation of the children of men. I do wish we would live to them, and may the Lord help us. ^[33]

1872

We, as Christians, believe in God, in Christ and in his atonement, in repentance and obedience, and in receiving the Spirit.^[34]

"we take the liberty to believe the Bible, which our fellow Christians, generally throughout the world, profess to believe in…”^[35]

“We are looking for him [i.e. Second coming of Christ]. The Christians of all denominations expect that he will appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. The Latter-day Saints expect this in common with all other Christians.”^[36]

1876

These are only a few reflections, when we take into consideration our Christian religion.^[37]

Brother Cannon speaks of Christians. We are Christians professedly, according to our religion.^[38]

“How shall we, as Christians, reconcile these words of our Savior with the reception everywhere given by the world to Messrs. Moody and Sankey? They are, professedly, Christian ministers, yet they are largely entertained by the world, extolled by the world, and apparently loved by the world….”^[39]

“But Joseph Smith reiterates the Savior’s promises. He has no fear of being proved a false teacher. He professes to be a Christian minister called and sent of God….”^[40]

“Immediate revelation was the life of primitive Christianity, and when that ceased to be given to men, Christianity waxed feeble, waned and died. With the restored Gospel came immediate revelation, and Christianity was born again upon the earth.”^[41]

1880s

1881

We are a Christian community; we believe in God and in Jesus Christ...^[42]

1890s

1892

"What a singular sort of ‘Christian community’ that must be that will not tolerate an unorthodox Christian society in its midst!”^[43]

“The insinuation in this [written attack on the LDS by a Protestant minister in SLC] is to the effect that a ‘Mormon’ is not a Christian, and the ‘Mormon’ religion is not a Christian religion, and further that the Supreme Court of the United States has virtually so decided…. But if a ‘Mormon’ is not a Christian then there are no Christians in America…. A member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is at least as fairly entitled to the appellation of a Christian as a member of the Presbyterian Church”^[44]

“[with reverence to Revelation 1. 12] We accept—as all Christians do—that God inspired the words ‘to see the voice.’”^[45]

1900-1950

1907

If it be true Christianity to accept Jesus Christ in person and his mission as divine; to revere him as the Son of God, the crucified and risen Lord, through whom alone mankind can attain salvation; to accept his teachings as a guide, to adopt as a standard and observe as a law the ethical code he promulgated; to comply with the requirements prescribed by him as essential to membership in his Church, namely, faith, repentance, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost,—if this be Christianity, then are we Christians, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a Christian church.^[46]

1917

[W]e are a Christian people, we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and we feel that it is our duty to acknowledge him as our Savior and Redeemer.^[47]

After 1950

1956

We are not Catholic, Protestant, nor Jewish, and yet this disclaimer should not be taken to mean we are not Christian. You who heard the powerful address of President Clark this morning will know that we are Christians, for central to everything we believe and teach is our faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. We are grateful for our Judeo-Christian heritage, for the Holy Bible which we accept without reservation as the word of God, except as to some errors that have crept in through translations.^[48]

1997

Jacob Neusner, one of the great Judaism scholars of the twentieth century: "Christianity encompasses a remarkably diverse set of religious systems that have some qualities in common—belief in Jesus Christ—but also differ deeply, especially about matters on which they seem at first glance to concur. For example, who, exactly was, and is, Jesus Christ? No one imagines that by describing a single common denominator Christianity tells us about one unitary religion. Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox, Methodist, Mormon, and Lutheran—each is comprised by clearly delineated groups of Christians, all of them with their respective systems of belief and behaviour...as the world knows Christianities, but no single Christianity, so the world has known, and today recognizes, diverse Judaisms, no single Judaism."^[49]

2006

Bart Ehrman, a leading expert on the text of the New Testament: "...just as Christianity today is incredibly diverse (compare the Roman Catholics with the Mormons with the Pentecostals with the Seventh Day Adventists with the Eastern Orthodox… and so on!), it was even more diverse in the early centuries..." ("A Few Questions for Bart Ehrman," Oxford University Press Blog (OUPblog) (9 October 2006). off-site

Clearly, the Church has "claimed" to be Christian for a long time, and even hostile critics realized it. To insist that this is a new, public relations move is false. Neutral observers have also seen the Church as Christian. Only a recent, intolerant fringe of fundamentalist Christianity has tried to exclude the Church from Christianity by self-serving definitions.

Conclusion

Critics use a self-serving and self-referential definition of "Christian" to exclude the LDS. They ignore the fact that many other Christians over the millennia would have disagreed with them on the same points, yet this does not disqualify these other believers from the family of "Christians."

Claims that the Church has only recently been asserting its Christian status are false, as attested by LDS scripture, practice, doctrine, and public statements of its leadership and its early critics.

Ironically, many of those who attack the Church and its members for not being Christians show a distinct lack of the Christian virtues themselves:

There has been no end to opposition. There are misinterpretations and misrepresentations of us and of our history, some of it mean-spirited and certainly contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ and His gospel. Sometimes clergy, even ministerial organizations, oppose us. They do what we would never do. We do not attack or criticize or oppose others as they do us...Strangest of all, otherwise intelligent people claim we are not Christian. This shows that they know little or nothing about us. It is a true principle that you cannot lift yourself by putting others down.^[50]

Endnotes

1. [note]  For a discussion by a non-LDS, conservative evangelical on points of doctrine upon which modern evangelical Christianity differs with the doctrines taught by the early Christian Fathers, see: David W. Bercot, Will The Real Heretics Please Stand Up: A New Look at Today's Evangelical Church in the Light of Early Christianity, 3rd edition, (Tyler, Texas: Scroll Publishing Company, 1999[1989]), 1. ISBN 0924722002
2. [note]  For a discussion of these issues, see Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks, "Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity, (Provo, Utah: FARMS, no date). off-site
3. [note]  Rev. John Sherer to Absalom Peters, 18 November 1830, published in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 4:93.
4. [note]  “Mormon Religion—Clerical Ambition—Western New York—The Mormonites Gone to Ohio,” Morning Courier and New-York Enquirer (New York City, New York) 7, no. 1331 (1 September 1831). off-site
5. [note]  The Farmer’s Herald, vol. 4, no. 49, 6 June 1832 [Johnsbury, Vermont]
6. [note] Liberal Advocate, vol. 3, no. 6, 30 December 1833 [Rochester, New York]
7. [note] Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 2:83. BYU Studies link
8. [note]  "The Gospel," The Evening and The Morning Star 1:81-83 (April 1833) .
9. [note]  Painesville Telegraph, vol. 1, no. 35, 4 September 1835 [Painesville, Ohio]
10. [note] Dean C. Jessee, The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, revised edition, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 2002), 144. ISBN 1573457876. off-site
11. [note]  James H. Eells to Joshua Leavitt, 1 April 1836, New York Evangelist (New York) 7, no. 15 (9 April 1836): 59. off-site (letter written on 1 April 1836 by James H. Eells who lived in Elyra, Ohio)
12. [note]  Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected by Joseph Fielding Smith, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1976), 121. ISBN 087579243X. off-site
13. [note] Francis G. Bishop, Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ, of Latter Day Saints (Blum and Son, Salem, Massachusetts 1839), 2.
14. [note]  Parley P. Pratt, Plain Facts (Manchester: W. R. Thomas, 1840), 6. off-site Full title
15. [note]  Upper Mississippian, "Nauvoo Mormon Religion," (15 February 1841) Times and Seasons 2:324.; reprint of an article from the Upper Mississippian
16. [note]  Extract from a Letter in the Juliet Courier, dated from Monmouth, Illinois (June 1841); cited in Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 4:381. BYU Studies link
17. [note]  Chicago Democrat, May 1842; editorial by John Wentworth
18. [note]  Cited by Helen Mar Whitney, Woman's Exponent 10 no. 13 (1 December 1881), 97–99. Available in Jeni Broberg Holzapfel and Richard Neitzel Holzapfel, eds., A Woman's View: Helen Mar Whitney's Reminiscences of Early Church History (Provo: Religious Studies Center, BYU, 1997), 149. ISBN 1570083576. ISBN 978-1570083570. GospeLink (requires subscrip.)
19. [note]  "A Baptist," letter to the editor published in the North Staffordshire Mercury, "Difference Between the Baptists & Latter-day Saints," (1 October 1843) Times and Seasons 3:931-932. (italics added)
20. [note]  Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected by Joseph Fielding Smith, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1976), 314. ISBN 087579243X. off-site
21. [note] Philadelphia Sun reprint, "Magna est veritas, et praevalebit’ (Not sure of translationvol=5," Times and Seasons no. 15 (15 August 1844), 621. off-site GospeLink (requires subscrip.)
22. [note]  D.S. Hollister to Joseph Smith, 9 May 1844; cited in Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 6:416–417. BYU Studies link
23. [note] Brigham Young, "Effects and Privileges of the Gospel," (24 July 1853) Journal of Discourses 1:237-237.
24. [note]  Brigham Young, "Government of God," (22 May 1859) Journal of Discourses 7:148.; Brigham Young, "Government of God," Deseret News 9 no. 13 (1 June 1859), 104.
25. [note]  Juley Remy, Journey to Great Salt Lake City (1861), 2:82–83; cited by B. Carmon Hardy (editor), Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormong Polygamy, Its origin, practice and demise, Vol. 9 of Kingdom in the West Series: The Mormons and the American Frontier (series editor Will Bagley), (Norman, Oklahoma: The Arthur H. Clark Company, 2007), 195. ISBN 0870623443. ISBN 978-0870623448..
26. [note] Brigham Young, "Advice To California Emigrants. — The Principles Of The Gospel, etc.," (8 July 1863) Journal of Discourses 10:230-231.
27. [note] Brigham Young, "Difference Of Ideas Entertained Respecting God, etc.," (31 July 1863) Journal of Discourses 10:318-319.
28. [note] Brigham Young, "Remarks by President Brigham Young," (19 August 1866) Journal of Discourses 11:268-268.
29. [note]  Brigham Young, Deseret News Weekly 15/109 (4 March 1866): page?.; cited in Eldon Watson (editor), Brigham Young Addresses (1982), 5:32.
30. [note]  William W. Riter, "Minutes of a General Council; Birmingham,England; January 5, 1866," Millennial Star 28 no. 12 (24 March 1866), 179.
31. [note] Brigham Young, "The Saints Are A Strange People Because They Practise What They Profess," (20 February 1870) Journal of Discourses 13:237-238.
32. [note]  Brigham Young, "Discourse by President Brigham Young," (3 June 1871) Journal of Discourses 14:195-196.; Brigham Young, "Discourse by President Brigham Young," Millennial Star 33 no. 27 (4 July 1871), 418–420.; DNW 20:235.
33. [note]  Brigham Young, "Remarks by President Brigham Young," (27 August 1871) Journal of Discourses 14:227.; Discourse by President Brigham Young, Deseret News 20 no. 31 (6 September 1871), 357–358.
34. [note] Brigham Young, "Riches — Hurry — Fashion — Helping The Poor — Mysteries," (26 May 1872) Journal of Discourses 15:42-42.
35. [note]  John Taylor, "Discourse by Elder John Taylor," (3 March 1872) Journal of Discourses 14:338. Discourse by Elder John Taylor, Deseret News 21 no. 36 (13 March 1872), 65, second column.
36. [note]  Orson Pratt, "Discourse by Elder Orson Pratt," (10 March 10 1872) Journal of Discourses 14:348.; Orson Pratt, "Discourse by Elder Orson Pratt," Deseret News 21 (20 March 1872), 77, fourth column.
37. [note] Brigham Young, "Discourse By President Brigham Young," (15 August 1876) Journal of Discourses 18:217-217.
38. [note] Brigham Young, "Discourse By President Brigham Young," (17 September 1876) Journal of Discourses 18:231-231.
39. [note] Editorial (Elder David McKenzie), "Christianity and Revivalism," Millennial Star 38 no. 10 (6 March 1876), 152.
40. [note] Editorial (Elder David McKenzie), "Gifts of the Holy Ghost," Millennial Star 38 no. 13 (27 March 1876), 200–201.
41. [note] Editorial (Elder David McKenzie), "Evidences of the Truth," Millennial Star 38 no. 14 (3 April 1876), 217.
42. [note] Francis M. Lyman, "General Conference (5 April 1881)," Millennial Star 43 no. 19 (9 May 1881), 292.
43. [note]  Editorial on citizens of Beaver Dam, Virginia removing Mormon Elders by force to another part of the state, Deseret News Weekly 45/13 (17 September 1892): 396.
44. [note]  "Intolerant Discrimination", Deseret News Weekly 45/14 (24 September 1892): 441.
45. [note]  "The Book of Mormon", Deseret News Weekly 45/25 (10 December 1892): 780.
46. [note] First Presidency, "Address to the World," Improvement Era 10 (May 1907), 481–495.
47. [note]  Joseph F. Smith, General Conference address (April 6, 1917)
48. [note] Hugh B. Brown, "Discourse," Improvement Era 10 (December 1956), 949–949.
49. [note]  Jacob Neusner, The Way Of Torah, 6th edition, (Belmont, California: Wadsworth Publishing Company, 1997), 15. ISBN 0534516033.
50. [note]  Boyd K. Packer, "A Defense and a Refuge," Ensign (November 2006), 85–88. off-site

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vendome]

Great point. I’m actually going to say that to some friends and see what happens. LOL

I’m going to have to construct the arguments though but, it will be fun.

[Godzilla]

WHY MORMONS AND JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES ARE NOT CHRISTIANS - Answering the Question: “Why do you say that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are not Christians. Don’t they believe in Jesus?”

The Mormon religion (officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or LDS) and the Jehovah’s Witness organization (also known as the Watchtower) both share a common foundational doctrine: They claim that Christianity became corrupt at the death of the New Testament apostles. They assert that through their religion alone, God has restored the lost and corrupted elements of the Christian faith so that only those who practice their religion possess the purest form of Christianity.
When challenged by non-members that they are not “Christians” because they deny many of the doctrinal tenets of the original Christian faith, often Jehovah’s Witness and Mormon adherents take offense. Reasoning that they “believe in Jesus Christ,” they question why anyone would consider them “unchristian.” In response to these assertions we ask:

1. If the confession that one “believes in Jesus Christ” is sufficient to qualify one as a “Christian”, how do we reconcile this with Jesus’ statement in Matthew chapter seven?

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.” —Matthew 7:21-23 *

It is apparent that the people in Jesus’ example thought they were Christians. Even though they may have performed many works in Jesus’ name as proof of their religious devotion, Jesus rejected them with the statement, “I never knew you.” Given Jesus’ preceding warnings about “false prophets” who would masquerade as followers of Jesus Christ (verse 15), is it any wonder Jesus commanded us to test the “fruit” of religious teachers before embracing them into the fold (verse 20)? This brings us to our second question:

2. Suppose we evangelical Christians were to claim that we are “Mormons” because we “believe in Jesus Christ,” but we deny the Book of Mormon and teach that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. How would a LDS person feel about us claiming to be “Mormon” when we reject the basic tenets that underlie the LDS religion?

In the same way that a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness would not be pleased with someone who claims to follow their religion but who rejects the fundamental tenets of their faith, so it is with true Christians.

Mormon Doctrine Exposed
Many of the people involved in these groups are sincere and are often the nicest, moral people one will ever meet. However, they have been deceived by a counterfeit religion that on the surface looks good, but is leading many into spiritual darkness. It doesn’t matter how many articles of “sheep’s clothing” they put on as they perform good “works” in the “name of Jesus Christ;” if their doctrinal “fruit” fails the test, they will experience the spiritual destruction accorded to those who follow “false prophets.”

“If a prophet...gives you as sign...and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet....”—Deuteronomy 13:1-3
“to the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”—Isaiah 8:20, KJV
“…the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.…and they that are led of them are destroyed.”—Isaiah 9:15-16, KJV
3. If Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are “Christians” just like we are, why do they send Missionaries to our doors to convert us to their beliefs?

Joseph Smith, Jr (founder of the Mormon religion) claimed that in 1820, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in a vision proclaiming that “all” the churches of Christianity were “wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination...that those professors were all corrupt....” (Joseph Smith—History 1:19). Likewise, Jehovah’s Witnesses have claimed that all of the churches of Christendom are part of false religious Babylon and that one must “come to Jehovah’s organization [i.e., the Watchtower] for salvation.”—The Watchtower, November 15, 1981, p. 21

Is it any wonder Christians reject Jehovah’s Witness and Mormon religions as being unchristian? If they were truly just other sects or denominations of Christianity, why would they send missionaries to the doors of Christians to proselytize them into their religious groups? Why would they be concerned about gaining converts out of Christianity, if they were honestly part of Christianity? To add emphasis to the Mormon claims concerning Christianity, 1 Nephi 14:10 in the Book of Mormon states:

“And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil.…”—1 Nephi 14:10

To the Mormons who proclaim that they are Christians just like we are, we ask the following questions:

According to the Book of Mormon which church is your church? If your church is the “church of the Lamb of God,” doesn’t this verse make our church the “church of the devil”? If then, according to Mormonism, our church is the “church of the devil,” how can you honestly claim to be Christians like we are?
In context, there is no question that the Book of Mormon is proclaiming that the churches of Christianity collectively comprise the “church of the devil.” The preceding verse (1 Nephi 14:9) speaks of a “great and abominable church...whose founder is the devil,” and 1 Nephi 13:26 identifies this “abominable church” as none other than the church that had possession of the Bible after it was delivered from the hands of the original apostles.

In contrast to the claims of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons who insist that a restoration of true Christianity was needed as a result of a complete apostasy from the original faith, Jesus proclaimed: “...I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it” (Matthew 16:18). Since Jesus promised to protect His Church, how could the Christian church have apostatized to the point of needing a new religion to be developed in order to restore it to the earth? The Apostle Paul warned about those who would arise to draw disciples “after themselves” when he stated:

“For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparking the flock; also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.”—Acts 20:29-31, NKJV

Indeed, we would do well to heed the words of Scripture and prove all things before welcoming into the fold of “Christianity,” all churches claiming adherence to Christ.

“But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.”—1 Thessalonians 5:21

“I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him...for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.”—Galatians 1:6-8

* Unless otherwise noted, all Scripture quotations are from the New American Standard Bible

[Mr. Lucky]

Pro football games are far more gentlemanly than these “God loves me more thna you” threads.

[humblegunner]

Latter-day Saints aren't Christians?

No.

Baby raping polygamist cultists maybe.

[SVTCobra03]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE&feature=player_embedded

[Vendome]

But still....The rest of us are wrong, apostates and whores of Babylon?

[Vendome]

Geeze!

[knarf]

Yup .... Romney must have decided to run.

[Brookhaven]

If Mormans are Christians, then Muslims are Christians.

Both faiths started by a prophet that was visited by and angel that declared the Bible to be corrupted. The angel gave both prophets a new set of scriptures upon which to base a new faith.

Both faiths give lip service to the Bible’s old and new testaments, but say it was corrupted, and the new scriptures handed down by the prophet reign supreme.

Both faiths honor Jesus Christ, but neither faith believes he was God in the flesh.

Both faiths deny not just the basic tenants of Christiantiy, but almost every important tenant of Christianity.

I’m not saying Mormans are Muslims by any stretch. But the fact is Mormanism is no closer to Christianity than Islam is. Neither Mormans or Muslims are Christians.

This isn’t meant to be an insult to Mormons either. Stating that Hindus are not Christians is not an insult, it is simply stating a fact.

BTW,

The parallels between the founding of Islam and Mormanism are so eerily similar that it gives one pause as to whether it could actually be a conincidence. It’s well worth anyone’s time to do a parallel study of the founding of Islam and Mormonism.

[Cisco Nix]

“Yep, posted by a mormon”

I was asking him. He’s not home it would seem. I see a lot of Mormon articles posted here at FR. Why? I don’t understand. Who cares.

[Persevero]

What is a Christian?

If it is someone who trusts in Jesus Christ, as He is presented in the Bible, as their only Savior -

then no, Mormons aren’t Christians.

[reaganaut]

I echo CC

I’ve been both, and Mormonism is not Christian.

[reaganaut]

They never even WANTED to be called “Christian” until about 25 years ago.

Here is what LDS LEADERS (from LDS sources more authoritative than FAIR have said).

Scripture:

“And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth...”

- Doctrine and Covenants, section 1, verse 30

Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805 - 1844):

“My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.”
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.’”
“He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, ‘Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.’ I then said to my mother, ‘I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.’ It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me?

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Joseph Smith–History, v. 1, pp. 8–26

“What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

“...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 1, p. xl

Prophet Brigham Young (1801 - 1877):

“He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 171

“Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 176

“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 73

“With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199

“The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171

“...the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans. And subsequently the Priesthood was taken from among men, this authority was re-called into the heavens, and the world was left without the Priesthood—without the power of God—without the Church and Kingdom of God.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 22, p. 44

Apostle Heber C. Kimball (1802 - 1868):

“Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.

- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

Prophet John Taylor (1808 - 1887):

“Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 167

“Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 127

“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

Apostle Orson Pratt (1811 - 1881):

“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172

“... who, in his right mind, could, for one moment, suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, “The Bible and Tradition, without Further Revelation, an insufficient Guide,” Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon – No. 3, December 1, 1850, p. 47; see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 383-384

“This great apostacy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now. A short time after the death of the last of the Apostles, the Christian Church, what few of them remained, were persecuted from mountain to mountain, from den to den, from one cave of the earth to another, and from nation to nation until they were entirely exterminated and rooted out of the earth. Well, what was left? An apostate Christianity, a Christianity without revelators, without any voice of God, without any Prophets to unfold the future, without visions, without any communications from the heavens.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 44

“This class of men, calling themselves Christian, uniting with the various forms of the pagan religion, adopting many of their ceremonies and institutions, became very popular, and finally some of the pagans embraced Christianity and were placed, as it were, upon the throne, and what they termed Christianity became very popular indeed. How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostacy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 14, p. 346

“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be. They say, “We have built chapels unto the name of the Lord; we call our Churches Christian Churches, they are called the Church of Christ, St. John’s Church, St. Paul’s Church, St. Peter’s Church, and after others of the ancient Apostles;” and one who had never studied the pattern which God has given of the Christian Church would almost really believe that they are Christian Churches. But there has been a long apostacy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance, and they are represented in the revelations of St. John as a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, having a golden cup in her hand, full of filthiness and abominations, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; that in her forehead there was a name written—”Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots.” This kind of a church has existed in great abundance, for as John the Revelator says, she was to have her dominion upon many waters, and she was to make all nations drunken with the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172

“Q. After the Church of Christ fled from earth to heaven, what was left? A. A set of wicked Apostates, murderers, and idolaters, who, after having made war with the saints, and overcome them, and destroyed them out of the earth, were left to follow the wicked imaginations of their own corrupt hearts, and to build up churches by human authority, and to follow after the cunning craftiness of uninspired men; having no Apostle, Prophet, or Revelator to inquire of God for them: and thus, because of wickedness, the Church, and Priesthood, and gifts, and ordinances and blessings of the everlasting Gospel, were taken from the earth, and reserved in heaven until the fulness of times, when it was predicted that they should again be restored among men to continue until the end should come.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, Chapter 16, p. 205

Prophet Wilford Woodruff (1807 - 1898):

“The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called”

- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 196

Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):

“After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon.”

- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith (1876 - 1972):

“Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.”

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 266

“For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian’ churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men.”

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915 - 1985):

“...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

“... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375

Prophet Ezra Taft Benson (1899 - 1994):

“This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...”

- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165

Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley (1910 - ):

“We accept that as a statement which came to him [Joseph Smith’s vision in which he was told all other religions were “abominations”], which is printed, of course, and published in his history as a statement. But we go forward with a friendly relationship, with a respect for people everywhere and with an effort to accept them as we meet them and, where opportunity exists, to talk with them and explain to them what we believe.... We don’t criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, interview with Richard Ostling, as quoted in Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling, p. 323

“Said he [a Protestant minister] ‘I’ve been all through this building, this temple which carries on its face the name of Jesus Christ, but nowhere have I seen any representation of the cross, the symbol of Christianity. I have noted your buildings elsewhere and likewise find an absence of the cross. Why is this when you say you believe in Jesus Christ.’ I responded:‘ I do not wish to give offense to any of my Christian brethren who use the cross on the steeples of their cathedrals and at the altars of their chapels, who wear it on their vestments, and imprint it on their books and other literature. But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ.’ He then asked: ‘If you do not use the cross, what is the symbol of your religion?’ I replied that the lives of our people must become the only meaningful expression of our faith and, in fact, therefore, the symbol of our worship.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, April 1975

Others:

“… we can see the situation in which the world now stands that the eyes of the whole world are blinded, that the chuches have all become corrupted, yea every church upon the face of the earth; that the Gospel of Christ is nowhere preached.”

- Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph Smith Jr.’s mother, letter to Solomon Mack, January 6, 1831, reprinted, in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, v. 1, p. 216

“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”

- Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9

[reaganaut]

LOL.

This is a PRO-Mormon article, posted by a Mormon.

[reaganaut]

The can use the same terms but they are not thinking of the same thing Christians are when we speak the same words.

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BINGO. And they have a lot of people fooled by that trick. So do the JW’s

[dragonblustar]

Looks like the Mormons are trying hard to re-define the term Christian.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080226163644AAt2VeZ

Look at some of the answers....

[Cisco Nix]

That’s why I asked the question, I didn’t know. Someone else beat you to it. Better luck next time. lol

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

It seems to me you first must start with the question “Who is God”? Historical and orthodox Christianity has always understood God as Trinity, with Jesus as the unique Son of God, who came into the world and became man for one purpose, to die on the cross as the one atoning sacrifice that was acceptable to God the Father. Because Jesus died and rose from the dead, His Body will never die again and therefore the Holy Spirit was sent into the world to gather all who will be saved into the Body of Christ on earth, the Church. Mormons reject this Gospel wholecloth, and Joseph Smith himself stated that all known were false and therefore he needed to “restore” the Church. So, it seems to me, he excluded himself from what has always been historic and orthodox Christianity.
Here is one test that will determine if what you believe is Christian or not. If you can’t name at least 10 Christians from each century, you must hold beliefs that don’t comport with historical and orthodox Christianity.
Another test would be if you hold to the Nicene Creed.
As I stated in a thread yesterday, there are many on this site that attack the LDS for their novel beliefs, but they themselves hold other novel beliefs and would fail my two part test.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Er... shouldn’t you be posting this as a mormon caucus thread???

[reaganaut]

I believe, however it’s important for accuracy’s sake for people to know that Latter-day Saints believe in the Christ of the Bible. He is our Lord and Saviour, our teacher and example.

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Ok, Norm, LET”S BE ACCURATE...

Mormons believe Christ is a created being, who earned his godhood, atoned for SOME sin IN THE GARDEN by sweating some blood (not dying on the cross), only died to be resurrected, want me to keep going? You left a lot of things out there, Norm.

I can source all of this and more to prove to you that the LDS Christ is a very different Christ than the Bible.

THAT IS NOT THE CHRIST OF THE BIBLE AT ALL! It is the anthesis of the Christ of the Bible.