There's a provocative piece up by Bryan Cross on the blog "Called to Communion". The opening grabbed my attention.
Posted on 11/03/2010 4:33:54 PM PDT by Salvation
There's a provocative piece up by Bryan Cross on the blog "Called to Communion". The opening grabbed my attention.
So we stand here and with open mouth stare heavenward and invent still other keys. Yet Christ says very clearly in Matthew 16:19 that He will give the keys to Peter. He does not say He has two kinds of keys, but He gives to Peter the keys He Himself has, and no others. It is as if He were saying: why are you staring heavenward in search of the keys? Do you not understand I gave them to Peter? They are indeed the keys of Heaven, but they are not found in Heaven. I left them on earth. Dont look for them in Heaven or anywhere else except in Peters mouth where I have placed them. Peters mouth is My mouth, and his tongue is My key case. His office is My office, his binding and loosing are My binding and loosing. Martin Luther [1]
Last year on Reformation Day we posted a sermon by Stanley Hauerwas on that very subject. A short time later I was sitting in a living room, talking with a life-long Protestant about the Catholic Church. This gentleman was doing most of the talking, and I was mostly listening, trying to understand him and his point of view more accurately. At one point he said, You know, I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church, and for Catholics. They are good people, and they do a lot of good for our community. But the one thing that I find offensive about the Catholic Church is the arrogance of its claim to be the Church that Christ founded.
The arrogance question aside, this gentleman was more informed about the Catholic Churchs claims about herself than are most people. In my experience most Protestants are unaware of the Catholic Churchs claim to be the Church that Christ founded, the very Church referred to in Matthew 16 where Jesus changed Simons name to Peter, said to him, Upon this rock I will build my Church, and gave to him the keys of the Kingdom. From my experience, most Protestants suppose that the Catholic Church thinks of herself as just another Christian denomination. Upon learning that the Catholic Church claims to be the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church that Christ founded, they are utterly surprised and in some cases offended.[2] For example, when Responsa ad quaestiones was released in the summer of 2007, some Protestants were surprised by its contents, and others were offended by it.3
One reason for their taking offense is that many do not know that the Catholic Church has always believed and professed that she is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church that Christ founded, and that any church or denomination or individual who is not in full communion with her is to some degree separated from the Church that Christ founded. For them, this teaching seemingly implies that non-Catholics are second-class citizens, when from their own point of view they are no less united to Christs Church than are Catholics. So their taking offense is understandable.
But typically those who find the Churchs claim offensive do so not because they have researched the history of the Catholic Church and concluded that it began at some point later than the events recorded in Acts 2, but because they have a qualitatively different conception of what the Church is. Theologically they oppose the very notion that some communion or institution is the one that Christ founded, referring to such a notion as sectarian or sectarianism. From their point of view, all those who love Jesus are equally members of the Church that Christ founded. They do not believe that Christ through His Apostles gave charge of His Church to an hierarchy of bishops in a perpetual line of succession having an essential unity that is essentially visible. In their view, the Church Christ founded is fundamentally an invisible union of all those who love Jesus, no matter what their denomination or tradition. From that point of view, the claim by one institution to be the Church that Christ founded can be offensive.[4]
Some Protestants who know of the Catholic Churchs claim to be the Church that Christ founded are not offended by this claim. They are not offended by it, because they remember Protestantisms historical origin in the Catholic Church. They remember that in the minds of the first Protestants, the intention was not to separate from the Catholic Church, but to reform the Catholic Church. For these first Protestants, their resulting separation from the Catholic Church was a kind of necessary evil, not intended to create one or many schisms from the Church, but to bring needed moral and doctrinal reform to the very same Church that Christ had founded. In the minds of those first Protestants, this separation was to persist only until the Catholic Church was sufficiently reformed, so that they could return to full communion with her. The present-day Protestants who remember this obviously do not believe that the Catholic Church is infallible; that is why they believe that they can justifiably be separated from her. But they do believe that the Catholic Church from which they are visibly separated is (or has the best claim to being the visible continuation of) the Church that Christ founded, and they look to be reunited to her as soon as she is sufficiently reformed.[5]
I have a question....are todays Baptists are part of the World Counsel of Churches?
I have a question....are todays Baptists part of the World Counsel of Churches?
**Ill choose Grace.**
The word ‘grace’ is thrown around as though no response by the potential convert is even needed at all.
You at least believe that one must confess with the mouth. If they don’t do that, are they lost? So the mouth muscles have to move, but the others don’t (as in water baptism). Unless the evangelist invites himself into the potential convert’s home, a fair amount of physical effort is involved in being saved.
The Lord commanded baptism. Paul said in Rom. 6:17, “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have OBEYED from the heart that form of DOCTRINE which was delivered you.”
People are told by blind leaders that “Jesus did it all for you”; completely resisting the Lord’s words of instruction on how to have remission of sins. The Christ’s sacrifice satisfied the Father’s requirement for atonement for sin. But for the individual, that blood is not applied until that individual is ‘buried with him’ (thus the reason that the Lord commanded baptism; and that Peter said it was for the remission of sins).
What are we, swallows returning to Capistrano?!?
Be careful what you wish for, Rome..
"Oh, look, deacon, the swallows are returning...How beautiful they are, flying in their V-formation...V for Vatican, that is...ah-hahaha...humm...Uh...oh....no...! Run and do NOT look up, brothers...quick, someone cover the statues...."
That is only a problem if both groups have been fooled into believing they are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, they will look to the Fathers and Doctors for guidance and thereby achieve consensus.
Was there a gap between John the Baptist and his next historically traceable successor? If so, the legitimacy Baptist confession is not historically verifiable and depends entirely upon subjective interpretation of the (Catholic) Bible.
How about this: Imagine Pfleger.
Absolutely not, if they joined, I would leave.
Absolutely not, if they joined, I would leave.
All of this is nothing but insulting.
"p32 4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls."
"5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties."
Both of these are referring to Mary's love and merciful nature. Consider when you were young, and did something bad, and your father rightly and justly decided to punish you. Then your mother interceded on your behalf even though you didn't deserve any help.
"p37 Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence"
Not exclusively through Mary. This is a reference to the help Mary provides for us. Many sinners can be saved through Her kind intercession, hence Christ's Kingdom is increased through Her. Duh.
Of course, you have posted much more. But I have not the time to refute all your thrusts. Sufficient to say, Catholics DO NOT worship Mary, The Saints, or anyone except The Holy Trinity. We honor Mary, as God has seen fit to honor Her.
yours IS watered down Christianity. Facts are facts, whether you like them or not. Open yourself to the truth and join the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!
And one thing for ALL of us to remember. Christ said, "Faith, hope and charity, and the greatest of these is charity."
It is easy to get wrapped up in the argument, and really begin to get PO'd at the opposition. Let us bear Christ's words in mind.
I will pray for your conversion to The One True Church, The Holy Catholic Church.
Pfleger is a disgrace. And remember...For every Pfleger type loon, there are 5 good, kind, hard-working priests. Pfleger is the exception, not the rule.
The traceable successors were the scattered remants who refused to bow to apostate Catholicism, who severely persecuted and slaughtered those mercilessly who refused to bow to the dictatorial apostasy. God’s always had a remant who refused to bow to Balaam and Nimrod. The days of the early church are no different. Some refused to bow and defile themselves when most bowed to the great apostasy.
Yup, not watered-down, simply defiled, rotten, and putrid. It stinks in the nostrils of God. It’s adding and taking away from His Word is what it is. The result is damnation upon those who promote it and believe it.
http://www.rockycreekbaptist.org
Thanks...so would I if i attended a Baptist church...am thinking about visiting one.
Well, yes, that is the point...imagine him following his bishop.
I would say for every Pfleger there are thousands of good faithful priests. I see him as an aberration that has not been dealt with. Unfortunately.
we don’t believe in succession, but in an individual personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Although, I’m a member of a local church, my salvation is not in the church, I don’t need the church to be saved.
Well certainly they can/could...And it would make a lot more sense than when your religion does it...But that wouldn't make it so any more for the Lutherans than it does for your religion...
Catholics are not Christians...Anglicans are not Christians...Baptists are not Christians...
There are however, Christians who are Baptist, Anglican and Catholic...
St. Paul says you must give reason for what you believe. The Bible does not speak of two or more individuals having a personal relationship with Christ with belief systems that conflict. Such inconsistency does not make logical sense. There can only one true faith. Do you see this? The Catholic Church claims to represent that faith and proves it by solid historical evidence. The Church is something real, not just an idea.
YUP.
Good analogy.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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