Posted on 10/26/2010 5:17:20 AM PDT by Colofornian
Snip
...Joseph Smith warned of the consequences when we fail to use the temples available to us: “Those Saints who neglect [temple work] in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.”
Snip
A key function of temples is to perform ordinance work for our deceased ancestors. When we think of temple ordinances and the necessity to do them perfectly, without error...
“… For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation...they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect” (D&C 128:5, 15;...).
Consider the...vision of President Joseph F. Smith...:
“Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins...having rejected the prophets.
Snip
The Lord revealed through... Joseph: “All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, … through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power … are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead” (D&C 132:7).
Snip
...One of the great privileges we have is the wearing of the garment...
...The garment, … when properly worn, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil.
“It is expected that members will wear the garment both night and day...Members should not adjust the garment or wear it contrary to instructions in order to accommodate different styles of clothing...The garment should not be removed for activities which might reasonably be done with the garment worn beneath the clothing...
(Excerpt) Read more at new.lds.org ...
The 1910s: Why Does Yet Another Smith 'Prophet' Seek the Living Among the Dead?
The October Other-World Series:
The 19th Century:
The 1880s-1890s: “THE HEARTS OF THE CHILDREN SHALL TURN TO THEIR FATHERS”
The 1870s: The Mormon Plan of Eternal Progression
The 1850s: Spiritualism and Mormonism: Some Thoughts on Similarities and Differences
The 1840s: The Nauvoo Pentagrams
The 1830s: The Occult and the Restoration Story: Joseph Smith and RLDS/LDS Origins
The Spirit World, Our Next Home
Are ghosts among us? Many believe in spirits, but churches offer stern warnings
The "familiar spirit" in 2 Nephi 26:16
The early 1800s:
JOSEPH SMITH, JR: Founder and first "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" (1805-1844)
JOSEPH SMITH’S INVOLVEMENT WITH MAGIC, MASONRY, AND THE OCCULT
GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism
Joseph F. Smith was a nephew of Joseph Smith. Lds thought so much of more dead appearing to their "prophet" in 1918 that they added it to their "Scriptures" (D&C 138)...(I think the occult world likes October for some reason). His uncle, Joseph Smith, has dozens of accounts of the dead appearing to him. And then the Lds church thought so much of this that they put most of them in a 2007 book on the series of Lds "Presidents" ("Prophets").
Specifically, Joseph F. Smith -- claimed 92 years ago this month to see the hosts of the dead, both small and great...an innumerable company of the spirits of the just (D&C 138:11-12) -- and these spirits were just waiting for Mormon missionaries to come their way to be redeemed -- as JF Smith said that the Mormon jesus had prepared "the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh; That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words. (D&C 138:37-38)
Who was he talking about? This is where Mormon beliefs gets confusing. You need to understand that Mormonism teaches that the spirit world is on this planet; that it's not very far from us; and that "all mankind" goes there upon death, no matter what you did in this life. If you don't believe me, go to this Lds article as a primer: The Spirit World, Our Next Home So on the one hand, Joseph F. Smith mentions seeing the "spirits of the just", but then he also mentions seeing spirit-rebels.
Lds try to claim the apostle Peter's account of Jesus proclaiming victory to the dead in prison as Scriptural justification. But Jesus didn't go preach to the "just spirits." And the rebel spirits He preached to were only those who lived during Noah's day, a very limited number (1 Peter 3:20) in contrast to those who've ever lived on this planet. This Mormon elder writing this article tries to claim that a "gospel" was going out to those who "rejected the prophets," but there were no "prophets" mentioned in the first several chapters of the book of Genesis (up through Noah's day). Even Noah is never mentioned to be a prophet.
Besides, Jesus made it quite clear in an account about a certain rich man and a certain beggar named Lazarus (Luke 16) that when the wealthy man told Abraham that he had five brothers who should be warned about that place of flaming torment (Luke 16:23-28), Abraham told him: "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them...If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." (Luke 16:29, 31)
So: Joseph F. Smith and this elder-writer must consider Abraham and Jesus to be either badly ill-informed, or worse, liars. Here they clearly said these in torment will not be persuaded even if a resurrected missionary comes to them. Mormons claim an entire missionary structure has been set up to go to the rebel dead who have rejected the prophets. [See link above, The Spirit World, Our Next Home, bottom of the article, for proof].
Who are you going to believe? Abraham and Jesus? Or the Mormon false prophets who contradict them?
Notice the legalism of Mormon templeism (warnings, "the necessity" of doing temple ordinances "perfectly, without error"...a couple of "shoulds" re: wearing underwear deemed to be "a protection against temptation and evil"; and "It is expected" in that nice almost motherly clean-your-room, do-your-chores tone. Oh, and then there's this paragraph from Joseph Smith himself, who appears he wrote it with great consultation from his attorney: From the article:
The Lord revealed through... Joseph: “All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, … through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power … are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead” (D&C 132:7).
And, of course, this isn't just "take it or leave it" stuff for Mormons...even though 80% or so "leave it" (don't have earned temple recommends from their leaders).
From the article: “Those Saints who neglect [temple work] in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.” A key function of temples is to perform ordinance work for our deceased ancestors. When we think of temple ordinances and the necessity to do them perfectly, without error...“… For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation...they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect” (D&C 128:5, 15;...).
Do you catch all that is being said here?
(1) Jesus isn't enough to make people perfect. The dead "without us cannot be made perfect". Wow! Such spiritual elitism! Such gall! Jesus couldn't do it, but we as a group of Mormons can!
(2) And then Mormons have to earn their salvation by working for the dead with genealogical works out their gazoo ensued by drive-by, almost-fast-food like proxy baptisms being done in the temple ...otherwise their salvation is in "peril." This writer says it succinctly: "neither can we without our dead be made perfect."
There ya go: The demons have convinced Mormons that dead ghostly spirits are the key to their perfection!
LOL
These threads are always helpful — they help bolster my belief that Mormonism is NOT Christian despite their public insistence that it is.
“let us accuse you of being just an obsessed mean and hateful anti but not address the issues in the actual article itself because we can’t” thread...
Another false statement
The “issues” are addressed daily. /yawn
The one thing I’ll never understand is, if Jesus wasn’t enough, then why did He come in the first place? What was the whole purpose of that? Why would God sacrifice His only son in a most horrible way, if it means nothing? And why did God say, by grace you are saved and not by works? The blood of Jesus is enough.
It has to be a heart thing, not a physical thing. When the bible says, without works your faith is dead. God’s saying, actions speak louder then words. If you love God, you will do the works. We can not work our way to heaven, so no man can boast.
Undecided readers,
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.
They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.
Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn’t been addressed a hundred times before.
Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.
After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed many times before.
Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/
Now you will likely notice the “you never address our points” posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here. Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself.
Their response? "Given its theology, Mormon interest in seeking the spirits of the dead is logical, and spiritistic revelations and contacts occur somewhat frequently within Mormonism. One major Church teaching is that the spirits of the dead can be assisted and even saved in the next. (The Facts on the Mormon Church by John Ankerberg, John Weldon, & Dillon Burroughs 1991/2009 Harvest House Publishers, p. 68)
These authors go on to ask the question, "How did the Mormon Church adopt such beliefs? From the spirits themselves. Consider this progression:
1. From its inception, Mormonism accepted spiritistic revelations from the dead and other spirits.
2. Some of these revelations concerned the importance of contacting the dead in order to assist them spiritually.
3. As a result, contacting the dead became a theological necessity within the Mormon Church. (Same authors, p. 69)
These threads have the opposite effect on me.
Yes, as somebody as succinctly said: Faith works.
In marriage, a faithful spouse puts that faithfulness into action.
And why did God say, by grace you are saved and not by works
Yes. Joseph Smith pitted works vs. grace in this infamous Book of Mormon passage (there's another similar redefinition of grace in the Mormon book of Helaman): "Ye are saved by grace,
AFTER
ALL
YOU
can do (2 Nephi 25:23)
So, how much does the Mormon have to do?
ALL he/she can do?
How much is that?
ALL that he/she can do!
Does grace really kick in before that, if we take the verse at face value?
No. Not until a Mormon has done ALL they can do...you see, there's the problem of that word, "after"
So the key Q:
What Mormon can say...
"I've done everything spiritually I can do"???
"I've done everything physically I can do"???
"I've done everything emotionally I can do"???
"I've done everything relationally I can do"???
"I've done everything attitudinally I can do"???
"I've done everything obedience-wise and ordinance-wise I can do"???
Boy, what a legalistic treadmill that all is! And to think Mormons who take this verse at face value then feel how they need to always prompt God's grace by first doing ALL they can do!
But that's not grace. Grace is free. It's unearned. It's unmerited. It's Undeserving. It's not based upon man's track record, but upon God's eternal Loving Kindness, forgiveness, mercy, and compassion.
The emphasis is upon Who HE IS and how that transmits down to us here.
Thanks for proving my point.
Again.
Not that I need any bolstering but I have been educated by these articles. I've known for many many years that Mormonism was dead wrong but I have learned much more here at F.R., especially from former Mormons.
The fact that you are LDS probably has a little to do with that, don’t you think?
Why is it @ Mormon testimony meetings we don't hear testimonies about how somebody's temple garment (Underwear) saved them from temptation and evil?
Anybody know of such a testimony?
Not that I need any bolstering but I have been educated by these articles. I’ve known for many many years that Mormonism was dead wrong but I have learned much more here at F.R., especially from former Mormons.
I understand that you believe we are wrong. I used to believe that fervently myself. But calling anything you get from the propaganda spewed daily on these boards by the anti’s “educating” couldn’t be more off the mark.
If anything, you should be learning how the anti’s use constant straw man arguments, misrepresentation and twisting to provide a false picture of the LDS Church. Even if you still disagree that much is still plain to see to any sincere seeker of truth who studies these things out.
Not a common subject for testimony meeting which should normally be focused on testimony of the Savior and of his restored church. However, I have heard it brought up. So what.
Non-issue.
That’s okay. They don’t consider you a Christian.
Funny how they talk smack both from a doctrinal nature and in general about “Gracers” and then they want to suddenly, in the last few years, co-opt Christianity so the appear mainstream, when for 150 years they had nothing positive to say about Christianity.
Contrived Convenience.
I will sacrafice a goat and pray for you.... /s
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