Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
That was the conclusion of MD's syllogism that started the disagreement. Your recent claim was you could disprove the claim.
But apparently that isn't good enough for Romanists. Romanists need to spin all kinds of wierd dogma into that simple statement of faith.
Theotokos is dogma that defines Jesus's divinity, in response to heresy. It is capable of a logical proof - if you accept the definition of the dogma, Jesus=God: That divine nature and human nature are united (Hypostatic union) and inseparable in person of Jesus. In the Trinity, God is the Triune God, One God existing as three persons. Jesus is one of these persons.
The dogma was necessary during the early heresies to differentiate our Christian, trinitarian, religion from heresies of the time and the future including Arianism, Nestorianism, Gnostics, Non-trinitarians, Unitarians, LDS, ad infinitum.
If you wish to discuss Christian theology and are an orthodox (small o) Christian then this is the foundation of your beliefs and faith. To wit:
IF one accepts the Divinity of Jesus as defined in dogma then "Jesus is God" and "Mary gave birth to Jesus (a person, not a separated 'nature'), and Mary is therefore the mother of Jesus. The conclusion: "Mary is the mother of God" is a logically proven - IF one accepts the definitions of our faith.
"Definitions" are key to formal logic, for obvious reasons, and the best proofs flow inescapably from the definitions. This makes their truth obvious:
Major premise: All men are mortal.
Minor premise: Socrates is a man.
Conclusion: Socrates is mortal.
So definitions are key to logic; the definition of Jesus/God is key to MD's proof. Just as nothing more is required to conclude Socrates is mortal, nothing more is required for the conclusion: "Mary is the mother of God." – IF you accept the definitions of the dogma we both share concerning Jesus and the history of who gave birth to Him, and what a "mother" is.
I proved that the additional premise that the IC was necessary for MMOG made the MMOG false.
I still haven't seen that proof. Please repost.
I proved that the additional premise that IC was "fitting" for MMOG made MMOG false.
It needs to affect the conclusion to be part of any proof - the conclusion needs to be dependent on both the major and the minor premise. If you have proof of this, again there is a simple test, please post it.
What kind of Nestorian heresy can I expect next from the Romanist Church?
The truth of MD's conclusion relies on the truth of the dogma that specifically rejects the heresy of Nestorius. Your position has gone upside-down.
THE ROMANIST CHURCH HAS COMPLETELY MANGLED THE SIMPLE DECLARATION THAT MARY WAS THE MOTHER OF GOD!
I'm sorry, but your position has now gone totally 'round the bend.
The Catholic Church, East and West as one, at the First Council of Ephesus in 431, declared Nestorius a heretic. The same council decreed in 431 that Mary is Theotokos because her son Jesus is one person who is both God and man, divine and human.
The simple syllogism which has engendered your alacrity to disprove and complicate is merely a short concise restatement of the truth of the dogma of Christ's Divinity, in the terms of formal logic.
Sophistry is found in specious reasoning and fallacies and obfuscation in attempt to avoid or disprove this simplicity:
Jesus is God.
Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Mary is the mother of God.
Jah, das ist ...
“Mary is the mother of God.” Yes, you definitely have given your logical god a mother.
It’s hard to justify the effort to reply to a post indicating they didn’t take the effort to understand a key point before they replied.
Okay...
Outstanding post!
Bookmarked.
You can say THAT again!
;-)
It is better to put one’s trust in God and one’s life in His hand than to be able to explain the Holy Trinity.
Oh yeah. When it's 12:39 my time and I'm using toothpicks to keep my eyelids up and I'm getting a dent in my forehead from it's falling on my keyboard, THEN you talk tough. LOL Have a blessed (or, if you prefer, blest) day. I gotta do stuff.
Looks like you ran them all off, Mad Dawg.
:)
Well, we either ran them off or bored them to death.
When I remember how I first read arguments against contraception in my teens, and I just didn’t want to hear it. I was going to be a libertine just as soon as I could persuade somebody to be a libertiness with me!
But the argument, and the vibe, stuck with me for years. And finally capitulating to it was part of my major capitulation to the Church.
So, even though so many of these threads end up like the river the .. Xerxes, I think it was, executed by digging so many distributaries that it ceased to flow and ended in a large malodorous marsh — OR they end up in a general conflagration, smothered by the RM, still maybe some little spores of truth penetrate consciousnesses around and about, and maybe 3 or 4 decades from now somebody will also capitulate to the Church.
“Oh, I’ve read. Every word. Your religion has made what Mary is to you, NOT on Scripture, but on Tradition. Mary is to be honored, as the chosen vessel for Jesus’ birth. You can argue the point all you want, you will find more EXPLICIT information on Enoch and Elijah being bodily in Heaven, than Mary. Which is NOWHERE to be found. IN SCRIPTURE.”
I love you!
You speak the truth.
Open their eyes!
Persuade them to put Christ first and only Christ.
“Oh, I’ve read. Every word. Your religion has made what Mary is to you, NOT on Scripture, but on Tradition. Mary is to be honored, as the chosen vessel for Jesus’ birth. You can argue the point all you want, you will find more EXPLICIT information on Enoch and Elijah being bodily in Heaven, than Mary. Which is NOWHERE to be found. IN SCRIPTURE.”
I love you!
You speak the truth.
Open their eyes!
Persuade them to put Christ first and only Christ.
Is THIS the thread with my favorite posts, that protestants do everything wrong?
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