Posted on 10/25/2009 5:47:50 AM PDT by NYer
The point here, if you can get it, is not whether or not the Catholic Church is the OTC. It's that there are lots of people who say things that aren't true about the Catholic Church. So even if it is true that your husband was born again and left the Churcfh and is a better person and all that, that would have no bearing on whether or not some things said about us are false or on whether or not some Catholic parents don't do a good job of raising their children in the faith.
Are you calling wagglebee a liar?
Oh how true. Either words mean what they mean and are rightly understood by all, or they don't and we are in the world of Alice in Wonderland:
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
P. do you think that Unam Sanctam could have come out of a true Ecumenical Council, even in 1302?
How different is it from what came out of the Ecumenical Council of Florence 140 years later?
Really, its the same thing Popes had been and would be writing for centuries. I.e, the Formula of Pope St. Hormisdas, the Questions to the Armenians of Clement VI, Pius XI in Mortalium Animos, or Pope St. Boniface I writing:
"It is clear that this Roman Church is to all churches throughout the world as the head is to the members, and that whoever separates himself from it becomes an exile from the Christian religion, since he ceases to belong to it's fellowship." (Epistle 14.1)
Even the Second Vatican Council in the Decree on Ecumenism paraphrases Unam Sanctum:
It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one body of Christ into which all those must be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God
Either there are many ways to salvation, or there is one way. This is a very simple question of logic which can be approached very simply and understood by all. Those who make a labor of this question as concerns Catholic teaching simply want to avoid the obvious, straightforward, and literal answer given directly in the inital quote.
Its like complicating the statement "Jesus Christ is God and of one substance with the Father" with endless hedging, rephrasing, and redefining, until we eventually come to the faith of Arius.
I stand by what I said! Catholics are supposed to read their Bible and one who says something like that that is a blantant lie deserves to be called a lazy Catholic. The Church doesn’t tell you not to read it as she stated they encourage it.
What is this OTC you’ve typed of several times?
My shortened version of “One True Church,” which Catholics mean is the Catholic church.
Have you any idea at all what God was doing with regard to the Nation of Israel at the time of Christ’s earthly ministry? The Big problem with your interpretation is that you leave Israel, and God’s purposes for that nation out of your equations.
There was no Body of Christ when John 20 was written. God was dealing with the repentance and forgiveness of Israel. Read Acts chapters 2-8 and every address, every sermon is to the children of Israel.
Pentecost is a feast day of the Jews, not a holiday of the NT Church (Body of Christ, which had not been revealed yet in Acts ch. 2). Read Peter’s sermons in chapters 2-8, and notice specifically to whom he is preaching.
God was making a final offer of repentance and salvation to Israel, and promised them that IF they repented and accepted the baptism that that they had previously rejected (e.g. John Baptist’s), then God would send Jesus Christ, their Messiah, back.
Those apostles yet had no knowledge of anything in this “Church” dispensation, and wouldn’t have until the Apostle Paul would be saved and spend three years in Sinai with Christ.
There is no passing on of this forgiving authority in the sense you describe to any people calling themselves “priests” today.
Nope. Nice try, though. She’s just mistaken.
Although the NIV is a seriously weakened down version of it, yes, the ministry of reconciation is my ministry today.
Could you please take the time to quote what you are refering to instead of having ALL of your posts out in the air like they appear to be?
“You’re telling me that’s in the BIBLE?”
Yes. If you’ve read it before, stop ignoring it.
If scripture can fully equip a man for every good work, and make him wise for salvation thru faith in Christ Jesus, then what salvation requirement can exist outside of it? You cannot be fully equipped if you are missing essentials.
Nor am I the one who insists the Mass is a ‘re-presentation’ of Christ’s sacrifice. You do. So how do you represent the blood and flesh of Jesus when his sacrifice was in the past?
Do in remembrance? Makes sense. Present the actual blood and flesh of Jesus every week/every day in sacrifice?
Feel free to explain.
Jews seemed to have tradition as well, but Jesus quoted scripture, not tradition. Ever wonder why?
The council of Florence was a complete failure; it was rejected by the People of God as not being "orthodox" in its declarations and for that reason is called "Ecumenical" only by the Latins.
"Either there are many ways to salvation, or there is one way. This is a very simple question of logic which can be approached very simply and understood by all. Those who make a labor of this question as concerns Catholic teaching simply want to avoid the obvious, straightforward, and literal answer given directly in the inital quote."
Agreed. I might add that it is highly unlikely that we will ever be able to seriously conclude much beyond saying that we can be sure that theosis is found within The Church. Beyond that is a matter for God, not us.
"Its like complicating the statement "Jesus Christ is God and of one substance with the Father" with endless hedging, rephrasing, and redefining, until we eventually come to the faith of Arius."
Indeed, it is inevitable that attempting to "improve upon" "ομοούσιον τώ Πατρί" will lead to heresy, rather like "improving" on " τό εκ τού Πατρός εκπορευόμενον" did.
Oh really? Exactly what "millions" where those and when did this happen that has escaped the history books?
You're as ill-informed and as creepy as usual, mare.
A lie is an intentional misstatement of fact.
Does your wife-swapping cult not teach basic vocabulary, or did their taking of your retirement funds prohibit your private purchase of a dictionary?
Krylon-buzz?
More like lurching uncontrollably into self-satire.
What can be expected from the celebrated, almost joyful, abandonment of the God-given gifts of discernment: logic and common sense.
Oh, and then there are those probing Greys.
Christ's instruction was to go forward and teach, not write.
*snort* Touché!
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