So which is it, on these two experiments? They are careful and simple, and a simple "yes" or "no" would be perfectly reasonable and would solve a lot of confusion.
No and No : ) Does that help?
Yes that helps! Thanks! Now I know you're wrong! :-)
And here are the questions again from the
post to which you replied above, and then I will comment.
Lets say that I'm on a mountaintop park, where there is a merry go around. It's a beautiful bright sunny warm morning, and as I sit on the merry go around, I look out and notice that the sun is exactly horizontal. Now let us further pretend that I get the merry go around rotating at 17 minutes per turn. This way, it'll have turned 180 degrees in the time it takes the light to reach the earth from the sun. So now let's say I have a very sensitive gravity meter which can measure the sun's gravitational pull.
Now let me ask you - which way will the sun's gravity appear related to it's light? Will the gravity of the sun be in the east while its gravitational pull will be toward the west?
You said "No," the sun's gravity will not appear in the east while the gravity pulls to the east.
But that is contradictory with what other things you've said. For example, you
tell me that the gravitational and actual position of the sun is about 7 minutes ahead of the sun's apparent position due to the speed of light and the distance to the sun. Then you
tell me that if the earth were rotating at 180degrees/8.5 minutes, the sun's optical image would be a full 180 degrees lagged behind its actual position. And now you say that if I was on a merry go around, turning at the rate of 180 degrees per 8.5 minutes, the sun
wouldn't be lagged the 180 degrees! What's the difference between the earth turning at 180D/8.5M and a merry go around turning the exact same rate?! I know what the difference is - you know that I could go try the merry go around and prove my point, but I can't speed the earth up. As best as I can tell, you've made two completely contradictory claims.
If I am on a merry go around, and it's turning, and there is a pulsing water jet and laser (which pulse in unison) both pointing at the center of the merry go around. The pulse rate and turn rate of the merry go around are such that no water pulse overlaps the life of the previous, and the merry go around turns 1/4 of a turn in the time it takes the leading edge of a water pulse to reach the center of the merry go around. Now it's a warm day and I'm sitting in the middle of the merry go around, with a good water proof compass. The water jet and laser are exactly north, 20 feet, of the center of the merry go around.
Will I not find that every time either light or water hits me that it will be coming exactly from the north?
And your answer: "No," the light and water will not both be coming from exactly north.
I cannot believe that you answered this way but it proves my point - you're wrong again here. As the question said, the water is shooting from a point 20 feet north of the merry go around's center to the merry go around's center. And I have news for you, the correct answer is "Yes," both the water AND the light will be coming from exactly north, and they will hit right on the center of the merry go around. And my compass will also be pointing exactly north and will also be pointing directly into the laser light and the water! If you really doubt this, I'll do the experiment and video it for you. If the weather's nice maybe I'll even sit on the merry go around as it turns, if I can hold on at such a high speed. Do you really think I'll find the experiments results to agree with you, here? I mean I want to be a good scientist and all.
By the way I'm well familiar with the concept of time of flight, phase shift, and that the earth rotates 2.13 degrees (arpox) in the time it takes for the sun's light to reach us, but the fact that we rotate in place does not mean that the sun's position changes nor does it mean that somehow the light is bent to travel in a curve or something.
What's with these contradictions? Have I missed something? Just tell me what's different between the sun rotating at 180D/8.5M and a merry go around doing the same. What if the merry go around was in space, orbing the sun all by itself, turning at that rate?
Oh, and let me know if you want me to do the second merry go around experiment (water jet, laser pulser, etc) and I'll see what I can do, and unlike some others here, honestly tell you what I find even if it isn't what I had previously thought (that is to say what I now think.)
By the way, are you on any meds for depression which might impair your thinking, perchance without you knowing it? Any that say to not drive while taking? Seldom have I seen such strange incoherence without the involvement of a narcotic. Except maybe when I stay up till 4 AM doing some exciting scientific experiment with the wavelength of light or some other fascinating demonstration of classical physics. but I digress.
I'm telling you, the water and light will hit the center of the merry go around in the same place (the center) and come from the exact same place - exactly north. And you are right that the rotating merry go around won't cause the sun to appear in a different place, but neither does the rotating earth - whether it be 24 hours/turn or 17 minutes per turn. (Except for the "Driving through the rain" phenomenon, but that's a minuscule displacement compared to your claim and has NOTHING to do with the distance from the earth to the sun.)
And I'm not saying that you're unintelligent - I'm certain that if you were willing to learn, rather then just stick to preconceived notions, you could actually do very well with science. But of course such an attitude of willingness to look at the issues and think about them may well make unsteady with other ideas you hold to as well.
Thanks,
-Jesse
I'm telling you, the water and light will hit the center of the merry go around in the same place (the center) and come from the exact same place - exactly north. The water won't hit the center and if you spin the MGR fast enough neither will the light.
By the way I'm well familiar with the concept of time of flight, phase shift, and that the earth rotates 2.13 degrees (arpox) in the time it takes for the sun's light to reach us, but the fact that we rotate in place does not mean that the sun's position changes nor does it mean that somehow the light is bent to travel in a curve or something.
Lets say that you have a sundial and for illustration lets say that the sun is a little over 7 AU away so that it takes the light an hour to get here. When the Sun dial indicates that it is noon with regular light, where would the Sun dial indicate the direction of the Sun if light was instantaneous? One o'clock right? So where is the sun in actuality, at the noon position as you claim or at the one o'clock position that I claim?
By the way, are you on any meds for depression which might impair your thinking, perchance without you knowing it? Any that say to not drive while taking? Seldom have I seen such strange incoherence without the involvement of a narcotic.
Yes that must be it. Projection is an interesting phenomena.