Why Evangelicals are Returning to Rome

CIC ^ | April 2008 | Bob DeWaay

[Petronski]

We take it as Jesus meant it...

You do not.

It's another parable...

It is not.

[Petronski]

Yeah, what you said.

;O)

[mike182d]

I find validation for my beliefs in the Bible.

Who added the New Testament writings to Sacred Scripture? There is no directive from God or Jesus Christ to do so, nor did it just float down from heaven. By whose authority was this done?

[mike182d]

If it weren’t for people like Martin Luther, I would not have copies of the Bible in English.

That's inaccurate for several reasons. First, illiteracy was rampant among the general populace. Second, you have Johannes Gutenburg to thank for that more than Martin Luther. Prior to the invention of the printing press, it was virtually impossible to provide a copy of the Bible to the common man at a reasonable cost.

[hosepipe]

Not only are there different gemstones(crystaline structures) there are different qualitys of gemstones.. That is to say there differnt qualities of crystals.. Even with some gemstones there are various color and tints.. Like Topaz can be clear or in various colors.. As well as other stones.. even diamonds..

Who is to say one color or tint is better than others.. or one stone is better than another.. for they all are unique.. in sometimes subtle ways.. Its all how you look at it.. whether one stone is better quality than another..

God no doubt God sees each "stone" as unique.. and perfect for what they are.. Light refracting or reflecting or even EMITTING stones.. Different kinds of light(infra red, ultraviolet, or even microwaves) cause gemstones to react differently.. basically everyone is a preacher ugh errr.. light emitter..

[OpusatFR]

Sister, you are one funny bunny.

I’ll pray for you.

[Huber]

The doom remark was because I expect strong and unparliamentary resistance to your characterization.

Surprisingly, no one has taken the bait, so far...

[mike182d]

Uh, the Cathers did. The Menonites do. The Armenian church does as well as the ancient Christian church in India. Claiming descent from an apostle is a common element in the older model Christian churches. The newer models dispense with finding it a necessity ~ particularly those who claim the special guidance of the Holy Spirit.

It is not mere descent that is being lauded, but the lineage in union with the teaching. Despite being a Bishop and successor of one of the Apostles, no one would claim that Arius and his followers were a legitimate branch of Christianity because there teachings diverged from what had been believed since the beginning.

[mike182d]

You do know that Christmas is not Scriptural and based on the traditions of “men?”

[mike182d]

By virtue of God becoming incarnate, the spiritual became tangible. A separation of the two would be a false dichotomy and furthermore a grave misunderstanding of Catholic teaching. The emphasis is not on the physical - the emphasis is on synthesis of the two.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Did I ask you if it frosted your cookies? No.
Did I ask lurking? yes. Wasn’t meant to be collective.

As far as my “previously unforgivable anti-Catholic slur” is concerned, had I said it to anyone else other than you I’d probably feel bad.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Dr.E: All of God's family is "full of grace."

Lurking: What a pile of post-reformation revisionism. Please quote even one other line where any biblical figure Mary were called "Full of Grace"

Read the Bible. Your answer is there on hundreds of pages.

Do you even know what the "grace of God" is? It is Jesus Christ given to us as a propitiation for our sins. It is Christ within all believing men and women. It is the unmerited gift of God to His family. We are saved by the grace of God within us through the faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth...

And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace." -- John 1:14,16

Who has been filled with the grace of God?

Well, the first explicit notation in Scripture says it was Noah...

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." -- Genesis 6:8

On through all the saints of the Old Testament and into the New Testament -- all whom have been given faith in Jesus Christ are filled with the grace of God.

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God...

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)" -- Romans 5:1-2,17

---

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." -- 1 Corinthians 15:10

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Meant to ping you to 172.

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

That’s funny - I read the Scripture you posted and didn’t find the Roman Catholic Church mentioned. Did I miss somethin’?

[Petronski]

When you said “your tradition” you included all Catholics, since you are speaking about Catholic traditions, not just Lurking’s.

[Petronski]

None of those say “filled with grace” nor I daresay did they say “Kecharitomene” in the Greek.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

In a society that needs constant sensual stimulation, is it any wonder that people would desire physical/tangible in worship? God knows the difficulty of loving an unseen spiritual being. In fact, we cannot love him unless he first loves us. And after that first love, we need the Holy Spirit to work in us through his word that we may continue to love what only can be seen by faith.

Beautifully and Scripturally articulated, Suzy.

AMEN!

[Petronski]

As far as my “previously unforgivable anti-Catholic slur” is concerned, had I said it to anyone else other than you I’d probably feel bad.

In making it plural, you referred to more than just me.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“And the kecharitomene is the past perfect form meaning ALWAYS
full of grace.You cannot have always been full of grace andbe a sinner.”

First, Gabriel said, “ And he came in unto her, and said,
Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee”
- not Hail, full of grace. The word is a perfect participle -
showing she was a recipient of grace ie - “favored”.
And not a bestower of grace. The context also prohibits this.

Eph. 1:6 is the only other use of this word in the NT,
and is there rendered to mean, “made acceptable”.

You do know the difference between grace, holiness and
sinlessness? Mary received grace, but was not sinless
as a human.

They are quite different.

Mary should be exalted and esteemed, as God said.
She should not be worshiped. In fact, no where does
it say she should be prayed to or that she can even
hear a prayer of someone on earth.

In general, Protestants make too little of Mary and
Catholics too much.

best,
ampu

[Uri’el-2012]

None of those say “filled with grace” nor I daresay did they say “Kecharitomene” in the Greek.

The same Greek construction of Luke 1:28 also occurs in Ephesians 1:6 and Sirach 18:17

verb indicative aorist active 3rd person singular GSN-5467

b'SHEM Yah'shua