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To: jo kus
The church discussed in Matthew 16 is the organization that is built on faith in Christ who is the Rock (1Pe.2:8) and the only foundation for the true church Sir, how can a human organization be invisible? Do you realize what you are saying when you write things? By the way, who is called "Kephas - Rock in Aramaic" in the New Testament? Jesus or Simon PETER? Boy, those "Christians" were a confused bunch, they couldn't even figure out why they called Simon "Kephas"....

Did I say the organization was invisible?

The churches were local assemblies composed of people who may or may not be Christians.

The true unity lies not in the organization but in the organism which is the Body of Christ united spiritually through rebirth (Jn.3)

That is why even though churches may differ, there are probably believers in most of them, even in the Roman Catholic Church despite what they teach.

As for the Aramic nonsense, you had to go to that myth since even the Latin did not help you out with that verse.

Peter states that the Rock is Christ (1Pe.2:8).

The Church is built on Christ (1Cor.3:11)

Those churches are local, not united under any human head or gov't. They shared the same faith, the same baptism, the same loaf, and the same leadership. Yes, brother, they were united in the faith under the leadership of the Apostles. That is quite clear in the New Testament.

If they shared the same faith, then they were indeed united-spiritually

Sharing the same loaf doesn't mean one is saved since even Judas participted in the Last Supper.

The spiritual church (made up of all those who believe in the saving work of Christ) is revealed by Paul, to whom alone it was revealed (Eph.3:3) and who revealed it to Peter (2Pe.3:15-16) I don't find ANYWHERE in the NT that denies a visible organization of believers. You foist that interpretation onto Scriptures when it is just not there.

Did I say that there was not a visible organization of believers?

I said that the visible organiztion can be composed of both believers and unbelievers (as even the original Apostles were).

The essential unity lies in the sharing of the same faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ and depending on that for ones salvation (not works).

Salvation doesn't come from any organized church, salvation comes from the words of God (Rom.10:17, 1Pe.1:23).

It is salvation which places one in the Body of Christ, the Church, the Bride of Christ, and then one joins a local church to grow in the Lord. (Eph.4)

Paul shared the SAME Gospel as the other Apostles. He didn't teach a different Gospel - if you read Galatians chapter one, you'd see that.

Amen, Paul did share the same Gospel as the Apostles, which was by Faith alone, in Christ alone.

A Roman Catholic appealing to the Book of Galatians!

Will wonders never cease! LOL!

189 posted on 02/07/2006 3:33:54 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Gal. 4:16)
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To: fortheDeclaration
The churches were local assemblies composed of people who may or may not be Christians.

Think of what you are saying...If I have a problem that CANNOT be resolved among us, I am to take it to an assembly that "may or may not be Christian"? I am supposed to submit my obedience in their judgment on the issue to them? LOL!

As for the Aramic nonsense, you had to go to that myth since even the Latin did not help you out with that verse.

Are you going to explain the word "Kephas" or not?

Peter states that the Rock is Christ (1Pe.2:8).

Different context. Why are YOU calling Simon a rock?

The Church is built on Christ (1Cor.3:11)

Does it say "but not Simon Peter"?

Salvation doesn't come from any organized church, salvation comes from the words of God (Rom.10:17, 1Pe.1:23).

Salvation comes THROUGH the Church, not FROM the Church. You wouldn't have the Word of God, now, would you, without the Church?

Amen, Paul did share the same Gospel as the Apostles, which was by Faith alone, in Christ alone.

You have read the Scriptures through over and over and you believe that? Where does the Scripture say we are saved by faith ALONE? What nonsense.

A Roman Catholic appealing to the Book of Galatians!

Why wouldn't I? It is inspired Scripture, just as much as any other book. It teaches Catholic Doctrine. I don't have problems with Galatians, when read in light of the Church's teachings.

Regards

196 posted on 02/08/2006 4:59:20 AM PST by jo kus
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