Posted on 02/05/2006 12:36:59 PM PST by Gamecock
He clearly misunderstands me. I never claimed to perfectly understand him. But, you really like to twist my words. I wonder, if you were secure in your beliefs, why would I be such a threat to you? In my own experience, misrepresentation of an opponent is the last refuge of the insecure.
Your dad need to have a long talk with you, dude.
He knows full well where I stand. Nothing I've said here is novel - or in any way heterodox. Mercifully, he does not display such small-mindedness as you have.
I have no further desire to communicate with you.
Amazing how many people forget that the epistles were written for a different culture in a different language with the understanding that these letters were written to communities who had ALREADY BEEN TAUGHT the Gospels... The Bible was not their first access to the Word of God.
Regards
Actually, one last thing - how does a person who's been here less than 2 months know who my father is? What was your previous screen name?
No. The Church was created by God, and includes even those before Christ, whose faith was credited to them as righteousness.
I think we're all going to be surprised when we get to heaven and see who's there who didn't hold the same beliefs as us -- and who isn't there that did.
Normally, one asks the original writer what they meant when people do not understand what is written. If we don't have access to that writer, we would normally ask his followers. This seems normal, don't you think?
Regards
The first time I heard the Islamic call to prayer from a muzzein in a Muslim country, I realized how limited our view can be from the pews. I have a lot more in common with my Catholic and Orthodox friends than I do with an Islamist or a Buddhist.
For a while, that really bothered me. Now, I accept that there is no answer - and have to accept the Church's Magesterial authority in determining the canon.
1. helen hunt is a retread.
2. there is some sort of FRmail communications behind the scenes where this was disclosed.
Which is it?
That's not just a "tossed phrase." Quit being obtuse.
Rochesterfan is you dad?
Jude, brother.... (I think you're a brother LOL, if not, then "sister" and my apologies)....
Perhaps Helen Hunt just stumbled the thread and chose to reply. It does happen -- I'm here because of it.
I don't know if Helen Hunt is Southern or not, but as a lifelong Southerner, I'll vouch that saying something like "I'm gonna have a talk with your daddy about that" is a fairly common Southernism. HH *may* be a retread, who knows. We'll find out soon enough.
Is it when she actually pings him?
***Is it when she actually pings him?***
Jude, I honestly didn't see that when I made my first comment, but why are you getting spun up over this?
Because it creeps me out.
***Because it creeps me out.***
Ohhh....
Nice to see you Helen.
Didn't you use to work for drsteve?
Michael Horton's attempt to parallel Fatima with the pentecostal movement is a good example of how Horton, one of those who would like to restore pristine 16th-century Protestantism, doesn't fully understand the Catholicism he pointificates upon. I would read any analysis he makes of Catholicism with a healthy skepticism. He's undoubtedly more trustworthy in his assessments of Protestants.
There are three basic positions on the charismata. (1) Some strict Calvinists deny that any special gifts continued after the Apostolic period (B. B. Warfield, based on certain passages in Calvin). They have no truck with pentecostals and charismatics. (2) Most pentecostals and some charismatics have an uncritical lionization of special gifts which can lead to serious error. (3) Catholics, Orthodox and some Protestants begin with a profound skepticism about any claims to "private revelation" as its called in Catholic terms while at the same time gladly affirming that God always has communicated prophetically and granted other special gifts to some members of Christ's body, for the purpose of edifying the rest of Christ's body, the Church, for confirming the power of the Gospel, and sometimes for indicating or vindicating his servants whose ministries are under attack.
But the first step in dealing with any claim of prophecy, healing, or any other miracle is profound, rigorous skepticism. Analysis of such claims includes rigorous empirical evaluation as well as rigorous spiritual evalution. The latter evaluation asks, "does the supposed seer or visionary live a life of heroic virtue that befits reception of an edifying charism?"
Catholic leaders are as much concerned about undiscerning, naive acceptance of miracle-claims and claims of private supernatural revelation among Catholics as they are concerned with the sheep-stealing of pentecostals and other sects. Cult-like movements surrounding Catholic visionaries are a real problem and have been repeatedly disciplined by bishops. For Horton to simply parallel Fatima with the Pentecostal movement, while it might on the surface seem to be an "obvious" move, does not bear up under close scrutiny. Fatima did stand the test of rigorous scrutiny and has ecclesiastical approval but even so, Catholics are not bound to agree that something supernatural happened at Fatima in 1917. This is very different from the pentecostals whose very raison-d'etre rests on claims that their visionaries and healers are authentic tools of God for the evangelization of the world. They do not have adequate methods for testing the authenticity of their own charismatic claims and they do not leave their members free to accept or reject such claims once approved by the groups' leaders. This is very different from the Catholic and Orthodox approach.
Benedict XVI is concerned about cultic sheepstealers, whether Pentecostal "protestants" or Catholic visionary-groupies. But the antidote in his eyes is not to try to turn Fatima into a hammer with which to beat down Pentecostals, rather, his antidote is to proclaim ever more forcefully, the Gospel of Christ as found in the Scriptures as authentically taught through the centuries by the bishops in apostolic succession. The same is true for Orthodox.
Horton talks a good game but he needs to spend some time truly living among Catholics and learning just what makes them tick. He might find a number of his prejudices challenged in the process.
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