The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[SoothingDave]

To keep kosher you can't watch football on the same TV you watch Basketball on?

No, silly. You just have to keep commercials for Beef (it's what's for dinner) on a seperate TV from ones for Cheese (Behold, the power of cheese).

SD

[SoothingDave]

Happy Birthday, everyone!

SD

[SoothingDave]

The "occupied territories" came under Israeli control after the 1967 war. They have never been formally annexed into Israel.

It is from this war that I consider the territories to be Israel's. I guess the legal question is if it's still an active war zone or not. Since there is at least the legal fiction of giving Palestinians some measure of autonomy in the area, I would think not.

SD

[SoothingDave]

If you guys don't have Dishes DVR you don't know what you're missing.

Maybe so, but I don't need another monthly charge. Plus, I've mastered the art of VCR programming. ;-)

When the DVRs come down in price, do not include a monthly fee (which is ridiculous cause they're pimping out your viewing habits to advertisers in the first place), and have DVD burners built-in to archive or share programs, I'll be into it.

SD

[SoothingDave]

How come he doesn't call terrorist leaders to a "higher plane"?

Why do you assume that the Vatican has not a stated position against terrorist acts? Does it need to be reiterated constantly?

Do you try to teach your dogs to use silverware and fingerbowls or is it just a waste of your effort?

SD

[al_c]

Disclaimer: If you want on or off of this ping list, FReepmail me.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE NEVERENDING STORY!!!!
Boy ... we really need to get a life, eh? ;o)

Wednesday, March 24, 2004
Lenten Weekday

First Reading: Psalm: Gospel:

Isaiah 49:8-15 Psalm 145:8-9, 13-14, 17-18 John 5:17-30 The person with fortitude is the one who perseveres in doing what his conscience tells him he ought to do. He does not measure the value of a task exclusively by the benefit he derives from it, but rather by the service he renders to others.  -- St. Josemaria Escriva

The following is, as usual, from The Word Among Us:

Imagine the setting: Jesus has just finished telling his opponents that he had full right to heal on the sabbath since he was God's Son. Such seeming blasphemy infuriated them all the more and cemented their desire to kill him. After this latest confrontation, you would think Jesus would try to be a bit more cautious. But instead of playing it safe, he went on to say that as the Son of God, he has authority for judgment and the power to give life!

As a just judge who can see into every human heart, Jesus certainly can make accurate assessments of our state. And, as the eternal Son of God, he certainly does have the power to give life to everyone who hears his word and believes in him.

But how do we receive Jesus' word? We may be able to recount Bible stories, but is that all Jesus is looking for? Not at all. He wants his words to penetrate our hearts and convince us of his love and of our need to turn from sin. This is the kind of "hearing" that prepares us for the "believing" that Jesus also talked about: turning to him and asking for forgiveness and restoration. It's this humble submission to Christ in faith, believing that he can bring us back to life, that transforms us.

Of course, we have the promise of eternal life with God when Jesus comes back. But we can also taste this eternal life right now, on a day-to-day basis. Some days we may feel closer to Jesus, and other days we may feel bound in guilt. Some days we may be able to hold fast to the gospel with no problems, and other days we may struggle with temptation after temptation. But as we prayerfully recall what Jesus has done for us and make good use of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, we will grow stronger. Whenever we begin to doubt or waver, we can turn to the Lord and ask him to reinforce our faith. Every step we take will root us in Christ more firmly and bring us even more fully from death to life.

"Jesus, you have rescued me from death and I praise you! I am so grateful for your loving mercy, and I can't wait to finally see you face-to-face!"

----------

God bless.

AC

[ET(end tyranny)]

It is from this war that I consider the territories to be Israel's. I guess the legal question is if it's still an active war zone or not. Since there is at least the legal fiction of giving Palestinians some measure of autonomy in the area, I would think not.

I agree. Those terrritories should be 'spoils of war'. Israel accepted the land given them and became a state, going through the proper channels. When it was attacked the next day by all the Arab nations, I think any land gained by Israel should rightfully belong to them. They earned it through defending themselves. Had the Arabs not attacked Israel they wouldn't have lost the areas. The Arabs got greedy and wanted it all, but ended up losing some f what they had. Had the Arabs gained land, you can bet they wouldn't give it back!

[malakhi]

Why do you assume that the Vatican has not a stated position against terrorist acts? Does it need to be reiterated constantly?

It could be at least as constantly reiterated as the Vatican's criticism of Israel.

[SoothingDave]

It could be at least as constantly reiterated as the Vatican's criticism of Israel.

Why? Would any reasonable person believe the Vatican's position was in favor of terror bombing? It goes without saying.

SD

[nate4one]

I agree. Those terrritories should be 'spoils of war'. Israel accepted the land given them and became a state, going through the proper channels. When it was attacked the next day by all the Arab nations, I think any land gained by Israel should rightfully belong to them. They earned it through defending themselves. Had the Arabs not attacked Israel they wouldn't have lost the areas. The Arabs got greedy and wanted it all, but ended up losing some f what they had. Had the Arabs gained land, you can bet they wouldn't give it back!

Yep. Millions of Israelites walked in and inhabited millions of EMPTY homes and took over MILLIONS of acres of UNINHABITED land. Those persecuted Jews just got lucky there was so much available real estate after the holocaust.

Unfortunately it is almost only the Vatican that has kept it's head through this whole ordeal. Maybe people who live in a Jewish state are better off than those in a typical Arab one, but the method the Israelites used to regain it is just as evil as our when we booted the Indians out. Just because we are better off today, does not mean slavery wasn't evil or territory takeover wasn't and evil act at the time.

One more example of dispensationalism blinding the church to evil it's views cause.

God Bless
Nate

[malakhi]

Why? Would any reasonable person believe the Vatican's position was in favor of terror bombing? It goes without saying.

Would any reasonable person believe the Vatican's position was in favor of targeted assassination of terrorist leaders?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

nate this is the most idiotic statement I've seen you make yet.

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

Would any reasonable person believe the Vatican's position was in favor of targeted assassination of terrorist leaders?

The point it that this is a new development, an escalation. Isn't it? It is a remarkable occurance, hence the remakrs.

Sadly, another bus or pizza shop being blown up is not remarkable.

Also, as I alluded to, it is to the civilized party that appeals to a better nature can be directed with some hope.

SD

[malakhi]

Yep. Millions of Israelites walked in and inhabited millions of EMPTY homes and took over MILLIONS of acres of UNINHABITED land.

Where do you get your history from?

A great deal of the land was purchased from absentee Arab landowners when the territory was under Ottoman rule. Britain gained control of the territory after the Turks were on the losing side of WWI. It was Britain's decision to establish Israel as a Jewish homeland. This decision was affirmed by the UN in 1947. Whatever your objection, the Jews did nothing illegal or contrary to international law in founding their state.

When Israel declared its independence, a good portion of the Arabs voluntarily left, at the urging of the surrounding Arab nations, who confidently predicted victory and driving the Jews into the sea. Well, they lost.

[malakhi]

Also, as I alluded to, it is to the civilized party that appeals to a better nature can be directed with some hope.

According to that logic, good should always seek to accommodate evil. Because the evil isn't going to change, so the best we can do is convince the good to surrender.

I'm not a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy. Evil needs to be defeated, not appeased.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Also, as I alluded to, it is to the civilized party that appeals to a better nature can be directed with some hope.

That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee down at the cafe just before your @ss is blown to bits by an 8 year old with a bomb strapped to his body.

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

According to that logic, good should always seek to accommodate evil. Because the evil isn't going to change, so the best we can do is convince the good to surrender.

Good should take care that it does not become that which it is fighting against. Is Palestine an active war zone or part of a civilized nation? If a known terrorist was hiding out in an apartment building in Detroit, would we send in a SWAT team to get him or simply fire rockets at the building?

If it's total war against the Palestinian people, then let's declare it and get on with it. If it's something less, then firing rockets at people seems a bit off.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

3 years of winning others to our way of belief.

The only thing I regret is not being able to have each and every one you alone far back in the woods where no one can hear you scream. :)

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee down at the cafe just before your @ss is blown to bits by an 8 year old with a bomb strapped to his body.

So what is the solution?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Is Palestine an active war zone or part of a civilized nation?

Dave do you have a line that you will not cross when taking up for the Vatican?

Or is this just more BS coming from you to see yourself in type?

BigMack