Diving to Prove Indians Lived on the Continental Shelf

The New York Times ^ | July 29, 2003 | ROBERT HANLEY

[e_engineer]

In many places around the world submerged beaches and ancient tree stumps have been found that provide an indication of where the sea level once was. I would try to find a submerged beach, then focus my efforts on the river valleys upstream from the submerged beach.

[RightWhale]

ancient tree stumps

Then there is dendrochronology and you're home free if it's inside the date range they have catalogued. What is it now, 4000 years or more?

[blam]

"What is it now, 4000 years or more?"

The documented dendrochronology record has passed 10,000 years now.

I have some 7,000 year old wood dredged up from Santa Rosa Sound in NW Florida. It was once part of a large forest.

[RightWhale]

I have to find a copy of Schoch's book and compare it to Graham Hancock's recent book.

[blam]

"I have to find a copy of Schoch's book and compare it to Graham Hancock's recent book."

What is Hancock's recent book? What did you think of Schoch's book?

[RightWhale]

I forget the title of Hancock's book, Underwater Civilizations or something like that. I have to find a copy of Schock's book, probably special order at Waldenbooks.

[blam]

"I have to find a copy of Schock's book, probably special order at Waldenbooks."

Sorry, I misread you statement and thought that you said that you'd read the book. The title is Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders, I consider it a medicore book.

[RightWhale]

Hancock learned to SCUBA dive and actually went to his sites for himself. Pretty good for a journalist.

[blam]

"Hancock learned to SCUBA dive and actually went to his sites for himself. Pretty good for a journalist."

Yes, I think I saw that

. I saw a one hour documentary on the 'structures' underwater off the coast of Japan. Schoch was shown underwater (scuba gear) touring the area. He declared them natural formations and said that the 'find' off Cuba is probably natural also. He has a PhD in geology and geophysics. So....

[LibKill]

Fascinating. I hope they find more artifacts.

History is the story of us, the human race. Stories don't get better than that.

[SunkenCiv]

Old topic, with a new ping, because the original ping only went to five or six. :') And this was never added to the keyword.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[blam]

Bump.

[Renfield]

Given a good bathymetry map, I'll wager I could tell her where to look. I'm not familiar with that stretch of coast, but I used to fish offshore of the Carolinas a good bit, and it's pretty easy to trace old landforms (terraces, bluffs, cliffs, etc) along the submerged portion of the Cape Fear River. One can follow its old course all the way out to the edge of the continental shelf. Indians camped in predictable areas along rivers...I have plenty of artifacts I found from looking in the right spots.

[fanfan]

It's all out there, and all we have to do is look for it.

Do y'all remember sitting in school, 7th grade, absolutely sure you would be the one to make these discoveries? I do.

Some people actually do this stuff for a living. I'm jealous.

[Alas Babylon!]

Good evening, Blam!

It would be interesting to conduct underwater surveys around the area of the Grand Banks. That area was a huge island, bigger even than Newfoundland is now, back then, according to the map. It is also much, much closer to Europe via the proposed Spain/France/Sea Ice arc of the Atlantic. The big problem with the Solutrean blade to Clovis point transition is the 7,000-10,000 years that separate them. But suppose the Solutrean Cro-Magnons lived peacefully on the Grand Banks Island UNTIL the rising sea forced them to the North American shore. If the Maritime provinces, New England and New York were too barren due to the recent ice melt, it's only natural that they would move Southeastwards--smack into places like Topper, Cactus Hill, etc. Interestingly enough, these sites have some of the EARLIEST Clovis remains. Not New Mexico or the Southern Plains but the Southeast USA.

The only problem with diving the Grand Banks is the extreme cold and the possible snaggings by fishing boats!

[blam]

"That area was a huge island, bigger even than Newfoundland is now, back then, according to the map. It is also much, much closer to Europe via the proposed Spain/France/Sea Ice arc of the Atlantic. "

But, wouldn't it have been under ice 10,000 years ago? (The Gulf Stream wasn't flowing back then to keep it warm, right?)

The last big Ice Age 'melt-surge' occurred between 7-8,000 years ago.

[Alas Babylon!]

I don't know. I read somewhere that the Grand Banks would have been to far out and dry to get an ice sheet.

According to the Center for the Study of the First Americans web site:

In the Last Glacial Maximum, at the time of the middle Solutrean period, a permanent ice rim connected the southwest coast of Ireland to the Grand Banks. In winter, the Atlantic froze as far south as the Bay of Biscay. The Gulf Current that today extends across the North Atlantic was shifted southward; it circulated clockwise, moving toward the Grand Banks and returned to the Bay of Biscay. Contrary to popular belief, the North Atlantic at this time was not unremittingly hostile. Short-term intervals and possibly longer periods of moderate weather would have enabled even inexperienced navigators to sail along the ice rim. Eventually hardy sailors would have traveled the short winter route to the Grand Banks, stupendously rich in fish and game. From there the leap to North America was assured.

[blam]

"Some people actually do this stuff for a living. I'm jealous."

Freeper Coyoteman does this for a living. He just published a book about the ancient Indians around the Monterrey Bay area.

[blam]

"Short-term intervals and possibly longer periods of moderate weather would have enabled even inexperienced navigators to sail along the ice rim. Eventually hardy sailors would have traveled the short winter route to the Grand Banks, stupendously rich in fish and game. From there the leap to North America was assured."

I'm convinced they came. I just don't know which way.

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida)

The DNA from these folks have been declared to be 'European.'

[Coyoteman]

Atlantis??

No. Sorry.