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If you believe that people are basically good ?
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, December 31, 2002 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 12/30/2002 11:02:27 PM PST by JohnHuang2

No issue has a greater influence on determining your social and political views than whether you view human nature as basically good or not.

In 20 years as a radio talk-show host, I have dialogued with thousands of people, of both sexes and from virtually every religious, ethnic and national background. Very early on, I realized that perhaps the major reason for political and other disagreements I had with callers was that they believed people are basically good, and I did not. I believe that we are born with tendencies toward both good and evil. Yes, babies are born innocent, but not good.

Why is this issue so important?

First, if you believe people are born good, you will attribute evil to forces outside the individual. That is why, for example, our secular humanistic culture so often attributes evil to poverty. Washington Sen. Patty Murray, former President Jimmy Carter and millions of other Westerners believe that the cause of Islamic terror is poverty. They really believe that people who strap bombs to their bodies to blow up families in pizzerias in Israel, plant bombs at a nightclub in Bali, slit stewardesses' throats and ram airplanes filled with innocent Americans into office buildings do so because they lack sufficient incomes.

Something in these people cannot accept the fact that many people have evil values and choose evil for reasons having nothing to do with their economic situation. The Carters and Murrays of the West – representatives of that huge group of naive Westerners identified by the once proud title "liberal" – do not understand that no amount of money will dissuade those who believe that God wants them to rule the world and murder all those they deem infidels.

Second, if you believe people are born good, you will not stress character development when you raise children. You will have schools teach young people how to use condoms, how to avoid first and secondhand tobacco smoke, how to recycle and how to prevent rainforests from disappearing. You will teach them how to struggle against the evils of society – its sexism, its racism, its classism and its homophobia. But you will not teach them that the primary struggle they have to wage to make a better world is against their own nature.

I attended Jewish religious schools (yeshivas) until the age of 18, and aside from being taught that moral rules come from God rather than from personal or world opinion, this was the greatest difference between my education and those who attended public and private secular schools. They learned that their greatest struggles were with society, and I learned that the greatest struggle was with me, and my natural inclinations to laziness, insatiable appetites and self-centeredness.

Third, if you believe that people are basically good, God and religion are morally unnecessary, even harmful. Why would basically good people need a God or religion to provide moral standards? Therefore, the crowd that believes in innate human goodness tends to either be secular or to reduce God and religion to social workers, providers of compassion rather than of moral standards and moral judgments.

Fourth, if you believe people are basically good, you, of course, believe that you are good – and therefore those who disagree with you must be bad, not merely wrong. You also believe that the more power that you and those you agree with have, the better the society will be. That is why such people are so committed to powerful government and to powerful judges. On the other hand, those of us who believe that people are not basically good do not want power concentrated in any one group, and are therefore profoundly suspicious of big government, big labor, big corporations and even big religious institutions. As Lord Acton said long ago, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton did not believe people are basically good.

No great body of wisdom, East or West, ever posited that people were basically good. This naive and dangerous notion originated in modern secular Western thought, probably with Jean Jacques Rousseau, the Frenchman who gave us the notion of pre-modern man as a noble savage.

He was half right. Savage, yes, noble, no.

If the West does not soon reject Rousseau and humanism and begin to recognize evil, judge it and confront it, it will find itself incapable of fighting savages who are not noble.


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Tuesday, December 31, 2002

Quote of the Day by Texas_Jarhead

1 posted on 12/30/2002 11:02:27 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
This is true. As Solzhenitsyn so abundantly points out, the line between good and evil passes through each persons heart.
2 posted on 12/30/2002 11:11:55 PM PST by Iris7
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To: Iris7
Good to see you again -- Happy New Year to you and yours =^)
3 posted on 12/30/2002 11:12:51 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
Humans are, by nature, selfish. Capitalism creates a system were individuals promoting their own selfish interests inherently, if indirectly, benefit others. Socialism, by contrast, requires people to be unselfish in a system which rewards selfish behavior that does not benefit others.
4 posted on 12/30/2002 11:22:53 PM PST by supercat
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To: JohnHuang2
I love this man!!! Very clearly written...If I didn't live in a remote valley I might be able to hear his radio show...

Here's a couple of excerpts from Scott Lively:

"The Declaration of Independence and U.S.Constitution presuppose a benign moral order in creation to which all human beings are subject.... The Bill of Rights...implicitly affirms that there is a higher law than concensus of the governed, derived from God....

The humanist model, on the other hand, assumes that morality derives from the human mind, and thus may change with social circumstances. It teaches that truth is subjective and relative. For this reason every humanist system inevitably produces totalitarianism, as subjective belief replaces objective truth as the moral authority for social policy, and competing "strongmen" stive for the power to declare their own will as law."

(From a booklet entitled "Why and How to Defeat the 'Gay' Movement" check it out at http://www.abidingtruth.com/ )
5 posted on 12/30/2002 11:34:19 PM PST by First Amendment
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To: JohnHuang2
If you believe that people are basically good ?

-----------------------

I most certainly do not. Most people will screw themselves up and screw you up in the process.

6 posted on 12/31/2002 12:28:26 AM PST by RLK
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To: JohnHuang2
Conservatives believe people have freedom to choose between being good and evil. Evil is very much a fact of human nature and since the dawn of time its evident that some people are simply matter of factly evil. Thus the liberal view of human nature - namely that people are basically good is not only incorrect but ends up defeating the goals that liberals themselves seek for the betterment of mankind.
7 posted on 12/31/2002 3:50:11 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: JohnHuang2
If the West does not soon reject Rousseau and humanism and begin to recognize evil, judge it and confront it, it will find itself incapable of fighting savages who are not noble.

The perils of designer tribalism*** It is all part of what Bruckner calls "the enchanting music of departure." Its siren call is seductive but also supremely mendacious. Indeed, the messy reality of the primitive world-its squalor and poverty, its penchant for cannibalism, slavery, gratuitous cruelty, and superstition-are carefully edited out of the picture. In their place we find a species of Rousseauvian sentimentality. Rousseau is the patron saint of Third Worldism. "Ignoring the real human race entirely," Rousseau wrote in a passage Bruckner quotes from the Confessions, "I imagined perfect beings, with heavenly virtue and beauty, so sure in their friendship, so tender and faithful, that I could never find anyone like them in the real world." The beings with whom Rousseau populated his fantasy life are exported to exotic lands by the Third Worldist. As Rousseau discovered, the unreality of the scenario, far from being an impediment to moral smugness, was an invaluable asset. Reality, after all, has a way of impinging upon fantasy, clipping its wings, limiting its exuberance. So much the worse, then, for reality. As Bruckner notes, in this romance adepts "were not looking for a real world but the negation of their own. . . . An eternal vision is projected on these nations that has nothing to do with their real history."***

8 posted on 12/31/2002 3:54:51 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: JohnHuang2

The Bible informs us that the human heart is "deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?"
Further, "The carnal mind is enmity against God; it is not subject to the Laws of God, neither indeed can be."
And finally, we are informed that God views human righteousness as "filthy rags".

To me that sums it up rather well.
9 posted on 12/31/2002 3:59:54 AM PST by fastdraw
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To: JohnHuang2
bump
10 posted on 12/31/2002 4:01:50 AM PST by foreverfree
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To: JohnHuang2
BUMPUS MAXIMUS
11 posted on 12/31/2002 4:21:26 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: JohnHuang2
Though Prager addresses a classic, inherently interesting matter here, he manages to miss the point which makes it possible to progress past it.

People are not inherently good. Nor are they inherently evil.

People are inherently people.

Humans are individually motivated and individually satisfied. They can detect the motives and agendas of others, but can never feel them to the exact degree of intensity those others feel. They have the capacity for rationality, generosity, and transcendence of spirit, but they also have the capacity for mindlessness, vindictiveness, and the most appalling closure of self.

What matters to the construction and maintenance of any human society is whether the incentives it instantiates:

  1. Are in harmony with the laws of the universe;
  2. Encourage the positive, benevolent potentialities of Man or his darker, destructive possibilities.

Christ told us to 1) love God, and 2) love one another as we love ourselves. What a brilliant encapsulation of the laws of successful societies! God, the supreme Lawgiver, cannot be overruled. His dictates about the nature of things must be accepted; the only way forward is to work with them. The capacities of individual men are so limited that real achievement is only available through division of labor in a regime of reliable contract among self-interested individuals. "Love of others" must include the sort of innocent benevolence, the willingness to see others prosper without rancor of envy, that's required by a free economy. Thus we arrive at the best imaginable system of social organization with no need for other arguments.

Best, not perfect. Perfection is not available to Man in this world.

All theorizing about goodness or evil in the human makeup must come to terms with this touchstone criterion: what works in the real world.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason:
http://www.palaceofreason.com

12 posted on 12/31/2002 4:26:47 AM PST by fporretto
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To: JohnHuang2
GOD AND MAN IN THE SKINNER BOX

Attending college in the 60's, I was exposed to the writings of BF Skinner in a mandatory Psychology 101 class. At the time I was struck by the time and energy the department devoted to this man and his theories. Essentially, he put a chicken in a box and taught it to play baseball by rewarding it with feed. When the chicken pressed a lever on cue, or ran a base, it got a pellet. Skinner was able to train animals to a remarkable degree with this method of positive reinforcement. He also demonstrated that negative reinforcement, such as electric shocks, was not as effective as positive reinforcement in controlling animal behavior.

So far, Skinner has not done the world much harm and perhaps he has even contributed something useful if you are Siegfried and Roy. But it soon became clear that Skinner and my psych professors had ambitions grander than dog and pony shows when they required a reading of Skinner's Walden Two. Here Skinner extrapolates his findings from chickens to people and causes real mischief. Essentially, he postulates that the humsn animal is a TABULA RASA, neither good nor evil, which can be conditioned into good behavior. There are no evil people just poorly conditioned behavior. All that is required to have generations of well behaved human chickens is a grand enough Skinner box to positively reinforce positive behavior. Of course, it does not take a socialist to see that it would take more than a village, indeed it would take a federal burocracy, to build and maintain a big enough box.

The mischief comes in when this thinking invades the penal (whoops, I mean corrections)system or the educational establishment and so on. Praeger, in his wonderful essay, has alluded to the effects on education of this baleful presumption about the nature of man. He is absolutely right when he says:

No issue has a greater influence on determining your social and political views than whether you view human nature as basically good or not.

This is why liberals loathe believing christians. This is why liberals are collectivists and conservatives are individualists. This is why the Democrat party slices and dices the electorate into groups. This is why Patty Murray said what she said. The old adage that liberals love mankind in the abstract and as a group (read African-Americans) but despise them on an individual level finds its origins here. This is why believing Christians and believing Jews are finding that they hold much in common and have a common philosophical enemy in secular Jews and goyische pagans. The application of this insight is almost endless.

13 posted on 12/31/2002 5:53:31 AM PST by nathanbedford
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To: fporretto
Christ told us to 1) love God, and 2) love one another as we love ourselves. What a brilliant encapsulation of the laws of successful societies!

Extremely well put. Thought you might want to know that.

14 posted on 12/31/2002 5:58:10 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: fporretto
Genesis 4:7

If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

Too little effort to master sin is sadly practiced by so many.

15 posted on 12/31/2002 6:04:21 AM PST by bmwcyle
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To: JohnHuang2
You only need to what pre-socialized children at play.

16 posted on 12/31/2002 6:07:08 AM PST by William Terrell
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To: JohnHuang2
bump
17 posted on 12/31/2002 6:17:52 AM PST by Ditter
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To: JohnHuang2
Sometimes Prager just gets it wrong.
18 posted on 12/31/2002 6:21:06 AM PST by Phaedrus
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To: supercat
Now that is profound, cuddo's.
19 posted on 12/31/2002 6:22:46 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: nathanbedford
Excellent post. Prager gets it slightly wrong when he claims that liberals believe in the inherent goodness of people. All the stuff I heard and read from the sixties tried very hard to establish the "blank slate" theory. The TR theory fit in with leftists ideas of reshaping society. If everything you knew and did was learned, then anything, including changing gender traits, was possible. And nobody was responsible for anything they did, only society.

That bogus theory has been blown out of the water most recently by Steven Pinker. I can't recall the name of his book, but it's being discussed and reviewed on a lot media outlets.

20 posted on 12/31/2002 6:27:54 AM PST by driftless
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