Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

AP | 11/22/02

[Davea]

Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

By RICHARD BENKE | The Associated Press 11/22/2002

ALBUQUERQUE - While he told the world that a weather balloon went down in Roswell, an Army general had in his hand a memo telling Pentagon brass of a UFO crash with "victims," according to a new television documentary.

A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Using a digital photo scanner to enlarge and enhance words printed on the folded piece of paper Ramey held, and using another computer program to select the most likely words, researcher David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."

With the textual study plus University of New Mexico archaeological findings from one of three alleged UFO crash sites, science fiction seeks to close the gap with fact, producers say.

A photograph taken July 8, 1947, in Fort Worth, Texas, by James Bond Johnson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram shows Ramey clutching a communique to Washington, D.C., while he displays a deflated weather balloon just hours after other Army officers in Roswell had reported a UFO crash.

It was one of a series of inconsistent military reports about the incident, which has become part of American mythology.

"Unless national security is at stake, there is absolutely no reason to keep this information from the public," said Thomas Vitale, a Sci-Fi Channel vice president. "Whatever crashed at Roswell, let us know what the truth is."

The Air Force had responded to a 1994 call from the late U.S. Rep. Steve Schiff, R-N.M., by saying it had no information on the Roswell Incident. Schiff, an Air Force reserve judge advocate general's officer, then took his query to the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

In 1997, the Air Force acknowledged the weather balloon had been a false cover story, but a new story also was called into question. In a report written by Lt. William McAndrew, the Air Force suggested reports of alien bodies in the wreckage must have originated because of a crash-test program in which mannequins were dropped from balloons. The mannequins did not come close to matching 1947 descriptions of alien bodies, and the crash-test program was not introduced until 1953, Rudiak said.

Sci-Fi, guided by longtime Roswell UFO researchers Tom Carey and Don Schmitt, commissioned William Doleman, an archaeologist with UNM's Maxwell Museum of Anthropology, to excavate the alleged initial crash contact point on the ranch where the late Mack Brazel worked as foreman.

Doleman said he knows little about the Roswell Incident but agreed to excavate the site using purely scientific methods because it is "culturally significant" and because so much of what is circulated about the Roswell crash landing is based on hearsay. What was needed, Doleman said, was physical evidence.

"So this project is a very bold step by people who claim to know what happened and where it happened," Doleman said. "What makes it bold is they were willing to go out there and look for physical evidence."

Details of the excavation are being kept confidential until after today's premiere. But Doleman said he agrees "that obviously something happened in July 1947 in southeastern New Mexico." After his work there, though, he said, "I'm still uncertain" about UFOs and alien beings.

The documentary will introduce some witnesses who have not been heard from publicly before, attesting to the existence of alien bodies in the wreckage of the "flying disc," Carey said by phone from his home in Pennsylvania.

"This is where we loaded the bodies," he quotes one New Mexico witness, Robert Slusher, as saying. Slusher, among those appearing in the documentary, was part of a B-29 crew that he said loaded bodies up through the plane's bomb bay at the Roswell Army Airfield.

Three victims were supposedly recovered from the final crash site, and a team of archaeologists, coincidentally, were in the area doing research on ancient Indians at the time, Carey said. Among them was Curry Holden, an archaeologist from Texas Tech in Lubbock, whom Carey located in 1992.

"Curry Holden said he saw everything - the craft and the bodies," Carey said. Holden died a few months later.

Carey, an investigator for a private corporation, said he started looking into Roswell 12 years ago "as a hobby."

But it became more than that. And now, he said, he and Schmitt are in a race against time, as witnesses become scarcer.

©Santa Fe New Mexican 2002

[Quix]

Also, if you can't trust a brother who has consistently proven reliable in your life--in terms of honesty and accuracy of reported observations about reality--WHO, PRAY TELL, DO YOU TRUST IN LIFE?

Probably, if your writings are any clue--no one. I could believe that. I wonder how many people trust you.

[crystalk]

Of course the Mj-12 documents are technically inauthentic: someone has typed them over using 1950-era paper, typewriters and styles of writing...etc. Therefore they are of no interest to collectors of old documents, and it would be pointless to frame them and think they will increase in value.

Whether this is the right name, and whether there were 12, or 13, members of the committee and whether this is the correct membership list cannot be the issue.

No one has seriously shown that the gist of what the documents allege is false. Many, many have come forward to show the truth of the essential shape of things, the inner committee judging what the public and the visible government can be allowed to know.

[Quix]

I don't think you could have stated my own guesstimate better.

THANKS MUCH.

[hinckley buzzard]

Sorry, mr quix, it was a privately commissioned Roper poll. And the questions were not directly about abduction per se, but about vague unusual experiences which the idiot enthusiasts of "Abduction" theory spun into evidence for widespread snatching of people by aliens. Total nonsequitur, but hey--don't let that spoil your fun.

[Quix]

My flawed memory has it that there was 2-3 honest questions that clearly were about abduction experiences--though perhaps in phrasing which tried to avoid predetermining the answer.

I don't pretend to have done a super serious analysis at the time but I do recall checking for my own satisfaction if the questions seemed fair enough and the estimate of 3,000,000 from the total population reasonable enough. At the time, I was satisfied all such was reasonable enough.

Do you have a link for it? I'd be happy to examine it again. I don't quite remember it as you do.

But we could lay the Roper report aside. There's enough other evidence to suggest that the numbers are in the millions. Victims have reported being in medical sorts of processing great rooms on evidently a mother ship or secret site--wherein hundreds upon hundreds--more than the size of a football field--were undergoing the procedures at the same time--in a single night. And such reports have come from multiple disconnected witnesses across the country and even around the world.

I suppose some could assert such were implanted "memories" from a government mind control experiment but that wouldn't explain the "scoop marks" on the bodies nor the implants and other physical evidences that were not there when the person went to sleep--as confirmed by spouses--but were there immediately after the abduction experience.

My fun is rooted in another source more or less entirely. This is interesting and may bear on end time and eternal events and issues--but it's not central to my anything.

[Quix]

Goodness--English teacher's English going to pot--WERE 2-3 questions.

[dinodino]

You people need to take your medication. I'm serious--stay on your meds!

Quix, may I remind you (for the third or fourth time) that YOU made the claims, and it's YOUR responsibility to prove them?

I came onto this thread looking for some intelligent commentary on the SciFi Roswell special. I was specifically looking for comment on the analysis of the Ramey memo contents. Instead, all I've read is tons of the most improbable theories (including citations of thoroughly discredited hoax documents!) from the UFO crowd: reptilian bases, alien abductions, and the like.

Why don't you folks join the Moon landing thread that's going on right now? Quix, I think you and Timestax would get along just fine--he doesn't believe we landed on the Moon.

[dinodino]

So, you don't care about the provenance or the contents of these documents. Would you care to have this same standard be applied to your will upon your demise? "Well, it's not REALLY the correct signature and we don't think Timestax really wrote it, and the list of beneficiaries is perhaps wrong, but we believe we understand THE GIST of the document..."

[dinodino]

Sorry, substitute your name for Timestax in my post.

[Quix]

Interesting motives and expectations clash.

I came on the thread WITHOUT any need or intent to PROVE anything.

I don't believe a lot of folk with your attitude will be convinced until they are consciously abducted or some such themselves regardless of how many experts or CNN live reports or artifacts falling in their back yards or whatever occur.

I came on the thread keenly interested in tossing information about with others who might know something more or different than I do. I don't expect this subject to be PROVEN beyond a SKEPTIC'S doubt until God says it's time to allow that. That time may be fast approaching but I don't see it here as yet.

If you earnestly and honestly and fair-mindedly want to examine the best evidence out so far--I'd suggest starting with Greer's 570 page book. A good number of the sources there are high ranking in both scientific fields and jobs pertinent to the topic. It would be interesting to me if you could read the whole thing and come away with the same attitude you have now.

I don't have any need to try and force you to believe much of anything--unless it might be about God and that can't be forced at all if it's to be real and valid anyway.

I do strongly believe this issue/subject area is going to play some significant roles in end-time events. I do believe it will be important for people to be alert and discerning. I strongly suspect it will be part of a Great Deception in some key way(s).

But the future's not here yet.

I don't mind learning all I reasonably can ahead of time.

[PLMerite]

All of the URLs are broken now. Can anybody point me to where I can read this "enhanced" document?

[dinodino]

For an English teacher, your reading comprehension sucks. Read my post--I said I was looking for, "comment," on the Ramey memo, not to prove or disprove it.

[Quix]

I DON'T KNOW either but if you find out, please let me know. I'd love a copy for my files. This analysis seemed like the best I've heard of, so far.

He went about it exceedingly logically. He started with words clearly discernable. Then he went about it as any other puzzle addict would. I thought he did a good job.

But a question I've had--why not go to the local newspaper offices and track down the negative and do the analysis from a much better quality photo. I think newspapers tend to keep archives forever don't they???

[Quix]

Given your seeming personality and attitude, my reading of "comment" was probably immediately translated as:

'dumb-arsed comment' so I can fight with it and ridicule it.

In any case, I have just above posted a comment. Have at it with your handy shredder.

[Landru]

Yea there was at least one victim that I can think of, too.
~Me.

Wasting my precious time watching that stupid program & the sorry loser Gumball (~who came with *it*).
Stupid-stupid-stupid!

I could've been doing something infinitely more productive on a Friday night.
Like getting a root canal.

...I'm gonna sue.

[dinodino]

You can buy a CD with a very high resolution (something like 8500 ppi) scan of the original negative.

[Lockbar]

It's a Cookbook!!!!!!

[Las Vegas Dave]

Book title translation;

"To Serve Man"

("Don't get on that ship, the book, it's a cookbook!!!!")

Alien smiles at a nice 'fat' juicy meal!
(Not so friendly this alien race from, "The Twilight Zone".)

[ozzymandus]

Look, I don't want to fight. I think there must be other life in the universe, and some of that life is probably intelligent and civilized. Years ago, I was a big Von Daniken fan (until about his 3rd book, by which time he had run out of material), and I went to a few UFO lectures on campus in college.
I just think the thing that crashed at Roswell was a spy balloon, and the UFO story was a cover-up that got out of hand. Now it's become a staple on the cable channel documentaries, and it will never be resolved to the satisfaction of everybody.
Can't we just br happy with winning control of Congress??
:>)
Regards, oz

[MHGinTN]

Just for you, I'll share a story that came to me second hand from my father, a man who worked for NATO as an advance planner (top secret clearance) for their meetings. The story was told to him by a man who also worked at NATO at the time of the telling but worked as a guard at a large base in Northern Indiana at the time the incident he described took place, 1947.

The base is a large airbase with an air museum now and was an active base even in the late forties. The guard was on hand to work a shipment of 'things' sent from Texas and New Mexico via train to the base in Indiana (sorry, I don't recall the base name because I wasn't all that prone to believe the story when I was a college kid, but my father was not prone to fanciful stories). To continue, the shipment came onto the base and amounted to tarp draped 'boxes' a bit larger than 'Garand shipment boxes' and one very large object that it took a crane and a huge frontend loader to unload and move into a very large emptied airplane hangar. The largest object too was draped with tarps for concealment. What was the shipment? I have no idea, but my father told me the story only once and in conjunction with a conversation we were having regarding possible life elsewhere from earth. Oh, and he asked me at the time if I had ever heard of Roswell, New Mexico. I hadn't at the time, but I have subsequently become more familiar with the mythos surrounding Roswell. I'm only sorry my father is dead now and I cannot ask him to give me the story again and provide any details regarding the man who told the first-hand story to him.