VANITY-Question to Gun Experts re: MD sniper & ballistics records

10/11/02 | me

[finnman69]

Question to FR gun experts:

The anti-gun nuts are going to claim that mandatory ballistics records could have prevented the sniper shootings. How easy is it to change the barrels on weapons like this thereby rendering ballistics records moot?

It seems to me that this would be easy to do.

[finnman69]

Comments and answers will be appreciated.

[spokeshave]

Not too difficult....also can swop out the firing pin and extractor

[eno_]

Moreover, the sniper has no desire to mask the fact that all the killing is done by one person or group of persons. he has no need to swap barrels, etc. And, on top of that, if he is part of a terrorist cell, he may have been supplied with a rifle that was never part of the normal supply chain in the U.S.

[antivenom]

RIGHT...once the GUN is stolen...all the ballistic reports will tell the police is the POINT OF SALE...absoultely NO winning arguement for doing ballistic fingerprinting...

Honest folks use guns for "defensive" purposes...CRIMINALS usually have "underground/stolen" guns...and use them for "offensive" purposes...

Ballistic fingerprinting WON'T work...

[finnman69]

great info...thanks

[Redcloak]

It's quite easy with some guns to swap out the barrel. It's also possible to do things like lapping the barrel or using different ammo to change the "fingerprint" of the gun. Or one could use a sabot round and leave no telltale barrel marks on the bullet at all!

There are several posts addressing the technical aspects of "fingerprinting" guns on this thread

[finnman69]

My question really is in response to a nut asking well if the police had ballistics records they could just go arrest the sniper since they would have his address.

[Concerned]

FINNMAN69 WROTE: "The anti-gun nuts are going to claim that mandatory ballistics records could have prevented the sniper shootings."

Following the U.S. Constitution (which CLEARLY PROHIBITS Congress from making laws which keep people from KEEPING and BEARING arms) would make a tremendous difference.

People who SEE the D.C. Beltway murder could shoot his tires out, fire into the van (and possibly HIT him and/or KILL him by their shot), etc.

Right now, everyone around D.C. are just SITTING DUCKS!!! All because of the RADICAL, LEFT-WING, LIBERAL EXTREMISTS!

[mad_as_he$$]

One day turnaround here. Just send me your barrel, bolt and firing pin. (all legal to mail) and I will return it next day. Guaranteed no "expert" can claim it was same weapon. FWIW I love all of these news people trying to claim that this is a "trained sniper" or "terrorist" what a bunch of BS!!!!!

[WilliamWallace1999]

Yep, he's right about that. The receiver is the portion of the gun that is registered. You can change barrels, extractors, and firing pins legally. These changes would render the ballistics meaningless.

PS---Is anybody else tired of them calling this guy a sniper? He is a murdering assasin, not a trained military shooter. My ten year old daughter can shoot her .223 better than this guy can. Neck shots on deer at 100 yds. are a hell of a lot tougher that body shots on people. Call the guy what he is, a muderous psychopath and leave the marksmanship commentary out of it. My eight year old daughter is just learning to shoot and can do as well as this freak.

nuff said.

WW

[rudypoot]

"Not too difficult....also can swop out the firing pin and extractor."

Hey wait a minute. That would be breaking the law then! /sarcasm

[Joe Brower]

Below is a letter to the editor I just wrote in response to Clarence Page's latest column, "Sniper puts heat on gun lobby". Many such screeds have been published in just the last few days. The drum-beating now focusing on "ballistic fingerprinting" has risen from the dead in the last week due to spate of shootings in the Washington, D.C. area, and the blood dancers are out in force to further their statist agenda.

I encourage others to use my letter as boilerplate to write their own rebuttals. We are indeed engaged in an argument with those who "buy ink by the barrelfull"...

***

October 11, 2002

Letters Editor, [your_local_fishwrap_name_here]

Re: "Sniper puts heat on gun lobby"

Predictably, the series of shootings in the Washington, D.C. area have brought the anti-gun forces back out of hiding. The editorial by Mr. Clarence Page in your 10/11/02 edition, "Sniper puts heat on gun lobby", sadly attempts to capitalize on the cowardly and inhuman acts of one depraved individual.

Mr. Page's absurd hyperbole in referring to a rifle as a "weapon of mass destruction" make it apparent he has received his information from the usual sources at the gun-ban lobby. The "next logical step" of "ballistic fingerprinting" is standard fare from those who repeatedly claim that "just one more law" will somehow make a difference. 20,000-plus laws later, we're still waiting. All that is being advocated here are violations of individual freedoms based on false promises of safety.

"Ballistic fingerprinting" is useless for a few reasons. First, altering the mechanical characteristics of any firearm is indeed a simple matter, and you can be sure that criminals are indeed smart enough to know this. Second, fragments are all that have been recovered of the bullets found, and no worthwhile "fingerprints" can be gathered from mere pieces. Third, in regards to the spent casing found at one scene, this could easily have been picked up at any local shooting range and used to throw law enforcement completely off the trail.

Note also that these shootings have occurred in an area that is subject to some of the most severe firearms restrictions in the country. If simply passing laws were all that is required to ward off criminals, the Washington, D.C. area would be one of the most crime-free places in our nation. Instead, the exact opposite is true. All that has accomplished is to give the shooter a large selection of defenseless victims. The "sniper" knows this. And so does Mr. Page.

[your_name_here]

[dd5339]

Marlyland already has ballistic fingerprinting as a law. It looks like it has done them a great bit of good, (/sarcasm).

A 223 will generally not leave much of a ballistic fingerprint as most rounds will break into so many small pieces it would be next to impossible to get usable ballistic information from it. Varmint rounds are designed to fragment upon impact for one example. If the shooter is using military surplus ammo, (full metal jacket or FMJ for short) there would be a better chance of recovering ballistic information.

The ballistic signature of a barrel can also be altered with some emery cloth and a power drill, (accuracy would go to h*ll). You wouldn't have to worry about changing the firing pin, extractor, and bolt unless the police have an actual piece of fired brass that was used in the commision of the crime.

Just my $0.02

Semper Fi

[itzmygun]

I saw a guy on Fox hold up a picture of three guns he said were common in .223. Of course it had the ar-15, and the Mini-14, but it also had an SKS. I've never seen the SKS in anything but 7.62X39, so I know it's not common. Is there such a thing?

[Blood of Tyrants]

It depends on the particular gun. Barrels on semi-auto and single shot pistols are very easy to change. Rifles are generally much harder. An AR-15 (semi-automatic version of M-16) upper receiver (several parts including barrel) is very easy to replace.

The barrel, extractor (pulls the casing out of the barrel), ejector (throws empty casing away from gun), and firing pin are all just parts that are routinely replaced because of wear, breakage, performance, etc.

[riverrunner]

You don't even have to change any parts few minutes with some bore polish and some find sand paper on the bolt face,extractor and firing pin will change it.

[El Sordo]

Stainless steel bore brushes. Steel wool. Lapping compound. Swap out parts. Burnish the end of the firing pin.

There are lots and lots of very easy ways to do it.

[brbethke]

If it's an AR-15 type rifle, it's very easy to swap barrels. If it's some other type, it's slightly more difficult, but nothing beyond the capability of any average 19th-century blacksmith or garage-shop tinkerer.

"Ballistic fingerprinting" guns is a stalking horse: to make it work you'd have to make it illegal to modify a gun once fingerprinted, which basically means wiping out the entire aftermarket parts and repair business. If you can't repair grandpa's old Springfield -- well, that's one less unregistered gun on the loose, isn't it?

[dd5339]

"but it also had an SKS"

As far as I know, (and I may be wrong) the SKS was NEVER produced in a 223, 7.62*39 only. The AK-74 was produced in a 223 variant however.

Semper Fi

[Vic3O3]

What...you were expecting the media to get ANYTHING right about a firearm?? Never happen...