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WHY I WOULD BUY SMITH & WESSON GUNS AND BOYCOTT RUGER
http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-papabill.html ^ | Unknown | Dean Speir

Posted on 06/26/2002 11:16:46 AM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender

As is common with any controversial issue, there's a great deal of misinformation floating about, and misperceptions held by those affected by the issue.

Nowhere is this truer than with 1994's infamous "Crime Bill," the second significant piece of federal firearms legislation passed that year. Aside from the "assault weapons" (whatever those are) provisions, a significant portion of that bill dealt with magazines (or "clips" by the unknowing, the lazy or the sloppy thinkers)... very simply, if one is a civilian (non-military, non-law enforcement), one may not legally possess any "high capacity ammunition feeding device" of more than ten rounds manufactured after that date. Centerfire, rimfire... makes no difference.

Now it would not be unreasonable for anyone in the firearms community to assume that the author of this particular provision was someone like then New York Democratic Congressman (now Senator) Charles Schumer, Ohio Senator Howard Metzenbaum, or one of the "Boxstein Senatorial babes" from California, Barbara Boxner or Dianne Feinstein, or any number of gun-grabbing legislators or appointees of the Clinton Administration.

But, sad to say, it was none of those, or anyone even associated with them. It was Bill Ruger, "one of our own" who, for whatever his motives (and you'll get a lot of heated opinions on just what those motives might have been), became a Vidkun Quisling to Second Amendment stalwarts.

In view of what has transpired in the intervening years, few will remember 17 January 1989 as being being a critical juncture for American firearms owners, but just as the Miami Firefight of April 1986 was a catalytic moment in the development of handgun ammunition, drug-abusing drifter Patrick Purdy's malevolent depredations in a school yard in Stockton, California, was a milestone that galvanized anti-gunners and put the firearms community in a defensive posture from which it is still operating almost a dozen years later.

Purdy, a criminal in possession of a Kalishnikov (quickly identified in the news media as an "AK-47 deadly assault rifle") and a Browning High Power pistol, went into a school yard in Stockton, California, and unleashed a hail of 7.62 X 39mm rounds at a bunch of grade school children, killing five of them before dispatching himself with a single 9 X 19mm round from the handgun. (Ahhhh!, but that he'd tried to reverse the process!)

This terrible event, seized upon by national broadcast and print media, played right into a scenario envisioned by HCI wunderkind Josh Sugarmann and privately circulated in November 1988, so the antigunners were thoroughly prepared to launch a well-coordinated propaganda campaign designed to confuse the general population and to fractionalize the firearms community ... the operative phrase being "assault rifle."

Gun people, and the author was no exception, were immediately put on the defensive, and were kept busy lamely pointing out that Purdy didn't have an "assault rifle," which type of firearm had been tightly regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934, but that he had a perfectly legal (in most jurisdictions) semi-automatic weapon. (Not that it matters that much, but the long gun involved was a Norinco SKS-56, 7.62 X 39mm semi-automatic carbine.)

Sugarmann had devised a scathingly brilliant strategy, for all any of us wound up doing was getting the mainstream media to create the term "assault weapon," while in March President Bush and his "drug czar," William Bennett (brother of President Clinton's attorney during the Lewinski scandal) temporarily suspended² further importation of a whole bunch of semi-automatic long guns by means of an Executive Order. And at the same time, a great many rank 'n' file gun owners began to rationalize that "Well, we really don't need those awful military-style assault weapons for hunting or target-shooting anyway."

Papa Bill Ruger speaks on gun control:

"A constant problem the industry has is that you can't compromise with gun prohibitionists."

The American Rifleman

June 1998, page 60, in a profile of the man who had just donated $1,000,000 to the NRA.

William Batterman Ruger, Senior is not a stupid man... he might be somewhat naive politically, but he's no dummy! Figuring that unless he took action, the jig was soon-to-be-up for a number of firearms, including his Mini-14 and perhaps even his extraordinarily popular Model 10/22 rimfire repeater. Unfortunately the lessons of Munich and Neville Chamberlain seemed to have been lost on the senior Ruger in the post-Stockton madness, for his creative approach was to toss the high capacity magazine "baby from the sleigh" in the desperate hope of appeasing the pursuing legislative wolves. Reasoning that the public was probably more concerned about the high volume of fire which Purdy was able to generate, than the speed at which he delivered same, Papa Bill proposed that Congress enact legislation limiting the capacity of magazines to fifteen (15!) rounds.

He had his Sturm Ruger braintrust prepare model legislation centered around this high capacity magazine prohibition with the fervent hope that "the guns [would be] saved." He even consulted with some others about this approach, including Neal Knox who attempted to dissuade him in the strongest possible terms (for Neal, anyway) from his foolhardy initiative. Papa Bill slept on Knox' council... and then on 30 March 1989 had his proposed legislation delivered to selected members of the House and the Senate. A portion of his document read:

The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete, and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining "assault rifles" and "semi-automatic rifles" is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could prohibit their possession or sale and would effectively implement these objectives."

Shortly thereafter, the Sport Arms and Ammunitions Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) endorsed the 15-round limitation in a position paper issued on 2 May 1989. It read, in part:

"The possession of any 'extra capacity' magazine in combination with the possession of a semi-automatic firearm, other than .22 caliber Rimfire, should be regulated. 'Extra capacity magazines' are detachable magazines which hold in excess of 10(!) centerfire rifle cartridges or shotgun shells, or detachable pistol magazines which hold in excess of 15 centerfire cartridges."

"Semi-automatic firearms as such should not be the object of any legislative prohibition. It is actually the large magazine capacity, rather than the semi-automatic operation, which is the proper focus of this debate."

But then SAMMI and NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation, which shares quarters with SAAMI) were always little more than adjuncts of Sturm, Ruger anyhow. It is instructive to note that in addition to Sturm, Ruger, SAAMI was then comprised of Winchester Ammunition division of Olin, Browning Arms, Federal Cartridge, Hercules, Hornady Manufacturing, Marlin Firearms, O.F. Mossberg, Omark Industries, Remington Arms, Smith & Wesson, Thompson/Center and Weatherby.

Within months, President George Bush, midway through his first year in office, had a proposed crime bill which contained the Ruger-inspired limitation on magazine capacity, but which did not find favor on Capitol Hill. As Executive Editor Joe Tartaro noted in his 7 July 1989 Gun Week column entitled "A Fistful of Cartridges:"

If the President's proposal had not included the 15-round magazine bite, the whole crime package would probably already be law.

In his final syndicated column of 1989, Neal Knox discussed the implications of Bill Ruger's actions the previous Spring, and addressed some remarks aimed at him by Steve Sanetti, Sturm, Ruger's general counsel and the only person other than Papa Bill ever authorized to issue statements for the company:

Steve Sanetti says "I know better" than to ascribe Bill Ruger's magazine ban proposal to business considerations. Maybe so; I don't think Bill is by any means "anti-gun," nor do I think he really wants a ban on either guns or magazines (after all, he got his start as a machine gun designer).

But I do think Bill Ruger is pushing a plan that would protect his business while affecting only his competitors, and I think he's damaging the efforts of those of us attempting to stop all proposed bans. Further, I don't think his actions on this issue, and other issues in the past, allows him to be described as "the strongest supporter of our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms."

What I know is that about 9 p.m. the night before Bill sent a letter to certain members of Congress calling for a ban on high-capacity magazines he called me, wanting me to push such a ban. His opening words, after citing the many federal, state and local bills to ban detachable magazine semi-autos, were "I want to save our little gun" -- which he later defined as the Mini-14 and the Mini-30. I'm not ascribing Bill's motives as "expedient from a business standpoint;" Bill did.

While I agree that a ban on over-15-round magazines would be "indefinitely preferable" to a ban on the guns that use them, that's not the question. Neither I, nor the other gun groups have ever believed that we were faced with such an either/or choice. Early last year the NRA legislative Policy committee discussed various alternatives to the proposed "assault weapons" ban, and wisely decided that magazine restrictions wouldn't satisfy our foes, but would make it more difficult to stop a gun ban.

I was particularly shocked when I realized Bill was talking about a ban on possession of over-15-round magazines, rather than a ban on sales (which is bad enough). I told him that such a law would make me a felon, for not only did I have standard over-15-round magazines for my Glock pistol (a high-capacity which has sharply cut into Ruger's police business), I have many high-cap mags for guns I don't even own, and don't even know where they all are. As I told Bill, after a lifetime of accumulating miscellaneous gun parts and accessories, there's no way I could clean out all my old parts drawers and boxes, then swear -- subject to a five or ten-year Federal prison term -- that I absolutely didn't have an M3 grease gun mag or 30-round M-2 magazine lying in some forgotten drawer.

Bill said (and all these direct quotes are approximate). "No, there'd be amnesty for people like you. We have to propose a ban on possession before they could take us seriously."

He contended that the public's problem was with "firepower," which could be resolved by eliminating high capacity mags.

I told him Metzenbaum and Company would gladly use whatever he offered, but they weren't about to willingly agree to eliminate high-capacity magazines as a substitute for banning guns; that their intention isn't to eliminate "firepower" but "firearms."

Bill finally said, "Neal, you're being very negative about it." He got angry, then said "Well somebody's got to do it; by God I will." And the next day he sent his letter to the Hill; the evidence indicates a few weeks later he talked SAAMI into supporting undefined "regulation" of magazines over-15-rounds -- a vote that might have gone a little differently if any produced high-capacity magazines as standard for either rifles or pistols.

I suspect that Ruger and SAAMI's actions are responsible, directly or indirectly, for the Bush administration's proposal to ban high-cap mags, but that proposal has been ignored -- except as evidence that "the Bush administration and the American firearms industry recognize there's a problem -- that Americans shouldn't be allowed to have such guns."

Of course, that isn't what Bill Ruger and SAAMI are saying, but that's the message they're sending. Perhaps it isn't business expediency to propose banning only that which they don't make, in an effort to protect what they do make; but it sure can't be claimed to be in defense of the Second Amendment.

Five years later William B. Ruger Sr.'s model legislation served as the basis of the "high capacity ammunition feeding devices" section of the Clinton Administration's "Crime Bill," save one major detail... the 15-round capacity had been dropped to 10-rounds by the time it had passed and been signed into Law on 13 September 1994! (The antigunners not only stuck it to "us," but stuck it to their Quisling as well.)

Why were we not surprised?!

What was surprising was that within four years the NRA would celebrate the man so enthusiastically. For many, this is one wound which has not healed, and the author has not only not purchased a Ruger product since that time, but subsequently sold at distress prices, his Mark II pistol and prized Model 77/22 rifle.

Aside from his million dollar donation to the NRA Museum, William B. Ruger, Senior, should be remembered as the man who embraced the investment casting process very early on, and whose Pine Tree is one of the most respected investment casting enterprises in the world, the man who gave us the Mini-14, the 10/22 and the first American-made production firearm chambered in 7.62 X 39mm... and the man who told NBC News' Tom Brokaw that:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."

"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."

"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

And, sadly, that too must be part of the Ruger legacy.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Announcements; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; firearms; gun; guncontrol; guns; ruger; smithandwesson
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I will never buy another single product from Ruger again. He sold out part of the American peoples' 2nd Amendment rights to better his own business and put money in his own pockets.

All Americans now have the high capacity magazine legacy to deal with thanks to this back stabber. This is why I would buy a Smith and Wesson product anyday over Ruger.

1 posted on 06/26/2002 11:16:47 AM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
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To: *bang_list


2 posted on 06/26/2002 11:22:45 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: MRAR15Guy56
I second that. Belgian Browning HP. 13 rd mags
4 posted on 06/26/2002 11:35:15 AM PDT by DETAILER
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
Sugarmann had devised a scathingly brilliant strategy, for all any of us wound up doing was getting the mainstream media to create the term "assault weapon,"

Sugarmann is very good at this - his was the first use of the now-notorious phrase "gunshow loophole" and for some time he has been attempting to create a new category of concealable pistols to regulate under the neologism "pocket rocket." The latter is, to my knowledge, his only propagandic setback to date.

5 posted on 06/26/2002 11:37:18 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
While Dean Spier and his evil twin Waldo Lydecker are usually spot-on, I do think his comparison of Bill Ruger to Hitler appeaser Nevile Chamberlain is inappropriate.

A better example would be Norwegian collaborator Vidkun Quisling, who actively worked with the Nazis who invaded his country and acted as a figurehead for him. That's Bill Ruger's legacy to America and Americans.

Bill Ruger

6 posted on 06/26/2002 11:44:51 AM PDT by archy
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
Oh, come on! Mr. Ruger might have made a bad mistake, but this is not anywhere near as bad as the Smith & Wesson deal with the Clinton administration. Smith & Wesson willingly entered into that arrangement (knowing full well) that they were undermining the decision of the other firearms manufacturers to fight it!

There is no comparison. I will not buy a Smith & Wesson product again, until the company admits that the Clinton deal was wrong, and issues a public apology to all American gun owners!! In the meantime if S&W goes out of business, so what? STI kicks their ass anyway!

Personally, I will gladly continue to support Ruger. There is a difference in a mistake, and willful deception. If you turn a blind eye, and support Smith & Wesson in spite of what they've done, then you are a Smith & Wesson groupie- not a 2nd Amendment Defender!

7 posted on 06/26/2002 11:46:02 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
FMCDH

FMCDH

8 posted on 06/26/2002 11:51:51 AM PDT by nothingnew
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To: archy
A little black moustache on vidkun would be appropriate...his hair is already perfect...Where's registered?

FMCDH

9 posted on 06/26/2002 11:58:23 AM PDT by nothingnew
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To: Destructor
acually Smith & Wesson was recently sold to an American company, who have disavowed what the previous owners did, and are working with the Bush admin. to fix it.
10 posted on 06/26/2002 12:15:41 PM PDT by Bottom_Gun
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: DETAILER
Excellent choice; it's also my favourite:


12 posted on 06/26/2002 12:20:07 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: nothingnew
A little black moustache on vidkun would be appropriate...his hair is already perfect...Where's registered?

FMCDH

It wasn't really necessary. Everyone knew, then. But nowadays, many aren't aware....


13 posted on 06/26/2002 12:35:14 PM PDT by archy
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
Sad; especailly because I love Rugers. In our socio/political climate, all Big Businesses become fascist -they can't seem to help themselves.

No matter - I'll keep my magazines, and the guns that use them, no matter what loathsome, unconstitutional laws our ilegitimate legislators pass.

14 posted on 06/26/2002 12:43:47 PM PDT by agrandis
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
You want a Smith? Ask them where they stand on their "agreement" with HUD.
They'll say (direct quote here): "It's not being enforced."
So you ask again (as I did): "But have you repudiated the agreement?" and again I hear, "It's not being enforced."
Not until the next Dimocrat takes office, Stupah!
15 posted on 06/26/2002 1:08:05 PM PDT by Redbob
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To: Destructor
Ditto. No new S&W's till they RENOUNCE the Clinton deal. Backing away is not enough.
16 posted on 06/26/2002 1:10:12 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Bottom_Gun
Wrong.
Call them up and try to get a straight answer.
17 posted on 06/26/2002 1:10:39 PM PDT by Redbob
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To: agrandis
Re: " In our socio/political climate, all Big Businesses become fascist -they can't seem to help themselves. "

An astute observation. Mussolini once stated that the proper name of fascism is corporatism. I'm reminded of Schindler's List. Many industrialists have no problem with centralized power and control of the little people. A corporation in socio-dynamic terms is just another collective and creates among its members a collectivist mindset. Where corporate voluntary exchange meets the coercive power of the state the synergy that develops is fascism. Interstingly, most big corporations have adapted dialectic, facillitated meetings (soviets) as their model for problem solving and culture change. It flows down from ISO requirements. This is also a heavy component of Community Oriented Policing. We are being assimilated. The transformational Marxists of the Franfurt school and adherents of Gramscii are

18 posted on 06/26/2002 1:57:51 PM PDT by LibTeeth
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To: Destructor
Oh, come on! Mr. Ruger might have made a bad mistake, but this is not anywhere near as bad as the Smith & Wesson deal with the Clinton administration.

You would buy from a company who's former head had stated:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."

and

"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."

This "simple civilian" will never buy from Ruger again until this high capacity magazine law is tossed out (good luck in that). I have never bought anything from Smith and Wesson either, but if the only two gun companies left were Ruger and Smith & Wesson; Ruger would not be my choice.

It's because of Ruger that high capacity magazines are now getting very rare. What widespread effects did the Smith and Wesson deal have on U.S. firearm owners?

Smith and Wesson was attacked by many lawyers with lawsuits versus Ruger who willfuly jumped up unto the opponents' side on to get some more money.

Ruger is far worse than Smith and Wesson. I will not purchase from Smith and Wesson either until they have fixed up the mess that they have made with former Clinton administration.

19 posted on 06/26/2002 2:06:41 PM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
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To: Destructor
Oh, come on! Mr. Ruger might have made a bad mistake, but this is not anywhere near as bad as the Smith & Wesson deal with the Clinton administration.

You would buy from a company who's former head had stated:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."

and

"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."

This "simple civilian" will never buy from Ruger again until this high capacity magazine law is tossed out (good luck in that). I have never bought anything from Smith and Wesson either, but if the only two gun companies left were Ruger and Smith & Wesson; Ruger would not be my choice.

It's because of Ruger that high capacity magazines are now getting very rare. What widespread effects did the Smith and Wesson deal have on U.S. firearm owners?

Smith and Wesson was attacked by many lawyers with lawsuits versus Ruger who willfuly jumped up unto the opponents' side on to get some more money.

Ruger is far worse than Smith and Wesson. I will not purchase from Smith and Wesson either until they have fixed up the mess that they have made with former Clinton administration.

20 posted on 06/26/2002 2:07:47 PM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
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