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Sharon calls for immediate construction of "separation" fence
israelinsider ^ | 04/14 16:15 | israelinsider

Posted on 04/14/2002 8:15:14 AM PDT by Democrats are liars

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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: SaveTheChief
It would have been interesting to see how this marvel of engineering would have worked.

We did see how it worked...It Didn't. The French could not pick it up and move it.

42 posted on 04/14/2002 10:16:32 AM PDT by BJungNan
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To: JasonC
Well done...."applause"!!!!!!
43 posted on 04/14/2002 10:18:24 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: SaveTheChief; JasonC
JasonC's excellent summary of the decisive phase of the Fall of France 1940 is WWII and armor doctrine basic history. It is worth noting that Guderian studied DeGaulle, Fuller and B.H. Liddell Hart in the between-war years. Their military thought was an essential ingredient of Guderian's combined-arms armor doctrine, blitzkrieg, that defeated the French Army and BEF. Ironic, that.

Suggested reading:
Panzer Leader, Heinz Guderian
Achtung! Panzer, Heinz Guderian
Tank Warfare: A History of Tanks in Battle, Kenneth Macksey.

44 posted on 04/14/2002 10:19:22 AM PDT by FreedomPoster
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To: abwehr
they will need to settle another labor force

And if things keep getting hotter, they may need to settle several hundred thousand Jews from France and Argentina.

45 posted on 04/14/2002 10:21:39 AM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: abwehr
 

 

April 14, 2002
NY TIMES

Israel's Security Requires a Sturdy Fence

By EHUD BARAK

TEL AVIV — For 18 months now, Israel has been engaged in a war with the Palestinian Authority, which harbors and executes terror in order to achieve its political objectives. This is a bloody struggle against a bitter rival that is ready to murder civilians and tries to turn suicide bombing into a legitimate tool. The aim of the Palestinian terror is not just to kill Israelis but also to break the will of Israeli society in order to dictate a political solution. Israel should never yield to this terror campaign.

The Palestinians should realize that terror could not yield any gain beyond what Israel was ready to negotiate at Camp David in July 2000. In the aftermath of Sept. 11, rewarding suicide terror generates a major risk for the free world as a whole, not just for Israel.

We can win this struggle against terror. That struggle must take place on three levels: the war against terror, the struggle for the moral high ground of international legitimacy, and the efforts to keep unity and cohesion within Israeli society.

For Israel, this struggle involves making clear that our enemy is not the Palestinian people but only Palestinian terror. The focus of our struggle is not on smashing Yasir Arafat to the wall; it is about trying to push the Palestinian leadership toward the resumption of negotiations.

There is an urgent need to shape a coherent Israeli strategy, which is now absent. Such a strategy should be based on three pillars: a tough campaign against terror, an open door for resumption of negotiations and physical disengagement from the Palestinians.

First, there must be a focused and determined campaign against terror from all sources: Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Tanzim, the Security Services of the Palestinian Authority. Any terrorist, in any place, at any time, including those coming out of the Palestinian Authority infrastructure, will be stopped for as long as the Palestinian Authority continues to guide and execute terror.

Second, we should leave open the door for resumption of negotiations, at any moment, without any precondition beyond a complete halt to violence, based on the principles presented at Camp David. If Palestinian terror continues in spite of this opened door, the whole world will know that terror is Mr. Arafat's choice, and he will have to bear the consequences. If the Palestinian leadership is ready to resume negotiations based on Camp David, that will signal a major achievement in the world struggle against terror because an entity supporting terrorism will have been brought back to negotiations without gaining anything by this evil endeavor.

Third, Israel must embark on unilateral disengagement from the Palestinians and establish a system of security fences. Israel's very future depends on this. Only such a border could secure a solid Jewish majority inside Israel for generations to come, and in so doing secure Israel as a democracy and its identity as a Jewish state.

If Israel does not find the way to disengage from the Palestinians, its future might resemble the experience of Belfast or Bosnia — two communities bleeding each other to death for generations. Alternatively, if we do not disengage from the Palestinians, Israel might drift toward an apartheid state. Obviously it is better to reach disengagement by consent through an agreement. But Israel cannot impose a readiness to make peace upon Mr. Arafat. The absence of a partner should not paralyze Israel from taking defensive steps in order to protect its own vital interests, which will determine its identity and future.

The disengagement would be implemented gradually over several years. The fence would take in seven settlement areas — three of them near Jerusalem — that now make up over 13 percent of the West Bank. Currently, within these settlement blocks live 80 percent of the settlers. Israel will also need a security zone along the Jordan River and some early warning stations, which combined will cover another 12 percent, adding up to 25 percent of the West Bank.

We should not formally annex the settlement blocks and the security zone to Israel, in order not to block the possibility of further negotiations on this issue. I would avoid immediate dismantling of all other settlements so as not to reward terrorism or deepen the political divide within Israel over the settlements. However, Israel should make clear its resolve and determination to end its rule over another people. Israel can do this by making an unequivocal commitment that it would relocate isolated settlements into the settlement blocks or into Israel proper within the time frame created by the proposed plan. The freedom of the Israeli Defense Force to act against terror must be maintained as long as there is no agreement.

In Jerusalem there would have to be two physical fences. The first would delineate the political boundary and be placed around the Greater City, including the settlement blocks adjacent to Jerusalem. The second would be a security-dictated barrier, with controlled gates and passes, inside Jerusalem to separate most of the Palestinian neighborhoods from the Jewish neighborhoods and the Holy Basin, including the Old City.

The immediate and long-term result of installing the security fence, with sensors and military forces along it, would be a dramatic reduction in suicide attacks inside Israel. Around the Gaza Strip there is a fence, and there are practically no suicide attacks originating from Gaza.
 
Israel is engaged in a struggle for its right to live in freedom and security as a Zionist, Jewish and democratic state. We wish to have a negotiated and just settlement with our neighbors based on the principles of Camp David. But we will never yield to terror. So as long as there is no agreement, in addition to fighting terrorism Israel needs to adopt a concrete plan for unilateral separation from the Palestinians.

Only in this way, which is consistent with the world's war against terrorism, can there be long-term stability in the Middle East and a better future for all people in the region.

Ehud Barak was prime minister of Israel from 1999 to 2001.


46 posted on 04/14/2002 10:31:39 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: rmvh
I guess you are aware, of course, that many Arabs have praised Hitler and other Nazis for murdering Jews? And you have read the statement of the Arab in charge of attacking the newly founded state of israel in 1948 that "it will be a war of extermination and annihilation." Of course the Israelis are so xenophobic that they only let a million Arabs live in their country with full rights as Israeli citizens. How many Jews live in the Arab countries friend?
47 posted on 04/14/2002 10:34:43 AM PDT by driftless
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To: Democrats are liars
Sharon calls for immediate construction of "separation" fence

As soon as a fence (preferably a wall and a five-to-ten mile separation zone)
is built...and I've got the cash...
I'm off to vacation in Israel!

Heck, I'd be willing to pay for a "dude ranch" version of training by the Israeli Defense
Force!

And, being a "cultural Christian", I wonder how many more folks would be ready to
make the same sojourn...just to look across "no man's land" and see the
sad, continuing squalor of a nation of pathetic fools who followed Arafat.

Fools, they could make a good deal for peace and end up living in a new Switzerland...
without the ice, snow and cold.
48 posted on 04/14/2002 10:44:43 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Democrats are liars; Thinkin' Gal; all
Just out of curiosity, isn't there a passage in the Bible about Jerusalem being fenced-in or something?
49 posted on 04/14/2002 10:50:17 AM PDT by Darth Sidious
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To: VOA
i am with you! I will also look across the fence into the garbage dump of terrorists.
50 posted on 04/14/2002 10:51:08 AM PDT by Democrats are liars
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To: Love America or move to ......
Mr. Sharon please also start bombing Lebanon and Syria right away. When you are through, please annex the US to be under your control. We need some serious help in the leadership department.
51 posted on 04/14/2002 11:03:06 AM PDT by RamsNo1
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To: JasonC
Excellent post! Excellent!

Thank you for the great read.

BUMP!

52 posted on 04/14/2002 11:13:29 AM PDT by Chris_Patrick
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To: FreedomPoster
An ingrediant, I will agree. But they did not solve the combined arms problem, and the early British theorists were too inclined to believe in massed tanks operating alone. Which is exactly the mistake in British doctrine that led to complete failure at Sedan. And to later disasters like Knightsbridge. Overconfidence in the still immature theories of the pre-war Brits in fact had a lot to do with Allied failures with armor in the first half of the war.

Guderian was the one who insisted on proper combined arms. Before him the tankers (like Fuller) were trying to get away from the infantry and the infantry (like most of the French high command) was trying to spread the tanks all along the line to support every unit. Fuller and Hart were correct that massing tanks was needed, but quite wrong that independence from the infantry was needed. Combined arms was confused with dissipating the effort of the armor by parceling it out all along the line, because both involved working with infantry.

There was not one error involved, but two - in rough terms, the French error of infantry thinking, and the British error of cavalry thinking. Neither was real armor (or mobile combined arms) thinking - the armor massed at key locations and driving the action, but with full support by all other arms, motorized to operate with the tanks. That was original to Guderian, and not due to British predecessors. Many British armor commanders did not figure this out until after repeated defeats in North Africa at Rommel's hands. You can track the learning process organizationally, with the amount of infantry in an Allied armor formation climbing over time (going from very tank-heavy to balanced formations, which the Germans had much earlier).

As for the other fellow's question about how one learns about this sort of thing, I can recommend several items to read. To Lose a Battle by Horne (general history of the campaign), De Gaulle's memoires (especially the period right after the breakthrough, the attempts to seal it off, and defeatism in the French high command afterward), Lost Victories by Manstein (the man who wrote the battle plan), Guderian of course, as another fellow already mentioned, as the man who came up with the armor doctrine, and more recently the France 1940 section of a book called Conventional Deterrence by John Mearsheimer, which covers the German decision to back Manstein's plan rather than the alternatives.

53 posted on 04/14/2002 11:16:15 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: Democrats are liars
Excellent idea. Historically, a wall works well against barbaric hoardes, as long as it is also defended.

I also think Israel needs a larger buffer zone. Push the borders of Israel out about 25 miles in all directions. For each suicide bomber, knock over a Pali town and pave over it.

The Palis didn't like the 1967 borders? Let 'em cry and whine to get the 2002 borders back.

54 posted on 04/14/2002 11:25:02 AM PDT by rageaholic
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To: JasonC
Fascinating stuff.
55 posted on 04/14/2002 11:35:40 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Democrats are liars; LarryLied; goldilucky; backhoe; Black Jade; ratcat; Veronica; Alouette; Mulder
"The fence is part of Sharon's plan for "buffer zones" along the Green Line to separate Israel from the Palestinian territories."

Finally! The Right Solution.
As we all know, there is already a steel fence - what, about 50 or 60 feet high in one of our states and it is 100% effective in deterring illegals from Mexico.

Good plan Sharon! Continue at haste!

56 posted on 04/14/2002 11:53:39 AM PDT by ChaseR
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To: The Giant Apricots
Terrorism: In the September 1999 Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum, the parties pledged to take action against "any threat or act of terrorism, violence or incitement." Although all three categories of hostilities are reprehensible, it was no accident that "terrorism" was placed at the top of the list. Terrorism involves the deliberate killing and injuring of randomly selected noncombatants for political ends. It seeks to promote a political outcome by spreading terror and demoralization throughout a population. It is immoral and ultimately self-defeating. We condemn it and we urge that the parties coordinate their security efforts to eliminate it. In its official submissions and briefings, the GOI has accused the PA of supporting terrorism by releasing incarcerated terrorists, by allowing PA security personnel to abet, and in some cases to conduct terrorist operations, and by terminating security cooperation with the GOI The PA vigorously denies the accusations. But Israelis hold the view that the PA's leadership has made no real effort over the past seven months to prevent anti-Israeli terrorism. The belief is, in and of itself, a major obstacle to the rebuilding of confidence. We believe that the PA has a responsibility to help rebuild confidence by making clear to both communities that terrorism is reprehensible and unacceptable, and by taking all measures to prevent terrorist operations and to punish perpetrators. This effort should include immediate steps to apprehend and incarcerate terrorists operating within the PA's jurisdiction.
57 posted on 04/14/2002 11:53:50 AM PDT by Democrats are liars
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To: backhoe; all
(anyone, I can't remember which state of ours, already has this high steel wall -??)
58 posted on 04/14/2002 11:54:38 AM PDT by ChaseR
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To: neddah
self transfer of the barbarians across the Jordan

Well put. Does anyone know where to find the photo gallery of Palestinian Kiddie Murderer-Bombers (Baby Barbarian Bombers) posted here about three days ago? I can't find it.

59 posted on 04/14/2002 11:54:59 AM PDT by Hibernius Druid
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To: ChadGore
Good line CG. bttt
60 posted on 04/14/2002 11:55:23 AM PDT by ChaseR
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