Optics expert rebuts Waco standoff report

Arizona Daily Star ^ | 12/7/01 | Alan D. Fischer

[Ada Coddington]

Friday, 7 December 2001

GUNFIRE CALLED LIKELY
Optics expert rebuts Waco standoff report

Benjie Sanders / Staff
Barbara Grant says she relied on science in her analysis of what happened at the Branch Davidian compound.

By Alan D. Fischer
ARIZONA DAILY STAR

Tucson optics consultant Barbara Grant used science - not politics - to determine that law enforcement agents likely fired guns at the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, in the moments leading up to the building burning to the ground.

A November 2000 report said agents fired no shots at Branch Davidians that day in 1993.

Grant spent two years studying infrared tapes taken by the FBI between 11:18 a.m. and 12:15 p.m. on April 19, 1993, from a plane circling 4,000 to 6,000 feet above the compound.

A 51-day standoff between the Branch Davidians and federal agents ended that day after a fire engulfed the compound following efforts to drive the occupants out by using tear gas and demolishing portions of the structure. About 80 people died, and some survivors were severely burned.

Grant, speaking to about 50 people at Thursday's Arizona Optics Industry Association luncheon meeting, showed segments of the FLIR infrared sensor tape that recorded temperature variations at the compound, including several sequences of multiple, sequential high-temperature "flashes" aimed toward the building.

"I believe the most likely explanation of the flashes is gunfire," Grant said.

She said the series of flashes occurred periodically until about 12:10 p.m., when the compound burst into flames. Her research focused primarily on a multiple flash sequence at 11:28 a.m.

A report on the incident, released Nov. 8, 2000, by Waco Investigation Special Consul John C. Danforth, states "unequivocally" that "government agents did not shoot at the Branch Davidians on April 19, 1993."

Casey Stavropoulos, public affairs press assistant at the U.S. Justice Department in Washington, D.C., said late Thursday that she had no information on Grant's investigation.

"I don't have anything to comment on in response to what her findings are," Stavropoulos said.

A Justice Department representative said earlier this week that the agency stands behind the Danforth report's findings.

Other explanations of the flashes have included a malfunction of the FLIR sensor and heat from the sun glinting off debris at the compound.

The Danforth report states: "It is concluded with a confident level of certainty that of all of the analyzed flashes seen on FLIR videotapes from April 19, 1993, between 10:41 a.m.-12:16 p.m. are caused by solar or heat reflections from single or multiple objects.

"The results from this investigation have shown, with a confident level of certainty, that the flashes on the FLIR videotapes from April 19, 1993, between 10:41 a.m.-12:16 p.m. cannot form evidence of gunfire."

Grant said her study showed the sensor malfunction and debris reflection scenarios are far less likely to explain the infrared flashes than the muzzle flash of weapons. "I would discount the first one," she said. "For the second one, in our experiments we found glass gives a pretty awful reflection in the infrared spectrum - not like visual light, it appears as a vague glow, not like the flashes that appeared on the tape."

She said that debris would have to be shiny, elevated and precisely aimed at the FLIR sensor in the moving aircraft to work as an explanation for the heat flashes.

Grant said that unlike Danforth's report, she would not claim to be 100 percent certain of her findings.

"My mind is still open. If someone can come up with a better solution, I will be glad to consider it," she said. "I am saying this is the most likely conclusion."

"It was valid science," Arizona Optics Industry Association member Keith McLeod said of Grant's presentation. "It wasn't schlepping one side or the other. It was simply taking basic high school and college analysis to dismantle the FBI's position."

Kathleen Perkins, CEO and publisher of OpticsReport, said, "This is a fine example of how optical engineers can find thorough solutions to problems."

Grant, a 1989 University of Arizona Optical Sciences Center graduate, is an electro-optical engineer who specializes in radiometric measurement and data analysis. This involves the measurement of light and the analysis of data obtained from optical instruments. She has worked as a Tucson-based electro-optics consultant the past four years.

She said she was drawn to the Waco controversy and wanted to approach it from a technical, analytical angle, avoiding the emotion and politics that had crept into some other investigations.

"I stayed very much in the technical realm. There is more technology here than you can shake a stick at," she said. "I haven't accepted a dime of money from anyone. I wanted to make this as objective as possible."

Grant and local attorney Dave Hardy, who pursued a Freedom of Information Act suit for two years to get the FBI to surrender a copy of the FLIR tape, made their own infrared tapes of weapons firing at a local shooting range for comparison.

These tests at the Desert Trails Gun Club and Training Facilities showed that muzzle flashes could last four times longer than the government said was possible, and helped Grant show that muzzle flashes would appear on the 30-frame-per-second FLIR videotapes.

* Contact Alan D. Fischer at 573-4175 or at afischer@azstarnet.com.

[Ada Coddington]

Who you gonna believe?

[backhoe]

-Index of Waco articles--

-Index of Waco Archives articles--

[zog]

--I have the first waco video, rules of engagement, that has this infrared video. I have yet to have anyone tell me who, after viewing this, thinks it's anything BUT gunfire. It is remarkably easy to see, even to an optics layman. It just IS gunfire, no amount of fudging or lying on the government's side is going to change that.

[Native American Female Vet]

After all these years the only people that still think "sensor malfunction and debris reflection scenarios" are whats on those tapes is the government.

[ml/nj]

My one and only Amazon review is of Waco ROE. There I said:

Watch the flashes on the FLIR video your government says are reflected sunlight, but the man who invented FLIR and anyone with half a brain can tell are your government machine gunning its own citizens as they attempted to flee from the rear of the burning building.

I've stared at several versions of the FLIR tape. In particular I've stared at the swimming pool, and I never once saw the slightest "reflection" of the sun there, from any angle as the plance circled above.

ML/NJ

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Film Review: The F.L.I.R. Project

[Buffalo Bob]

An 8 yr old Branch Davidian girl was found after the fire, laying on her side, her mangled body twisted grossly backwards till her feet angled towards her forehead. This child did not die of flames twisting her body. She had no carbon monoxide in her system.

Click for picture of her, Warning: Graphic Content!

She died in agonizing pain from the CS gas. The ensuing seizures and powerful wrenching muscle spasms caused her body to bow in such a manner. It would have taken her agonizing minutes to die...

"I cry to think of what went through those mothers minds as they choked and gasped for air, watching their babies vomit and die the siezures taking the infants and twisting them. How DARE our government impose such a sentence!"

 
After breaking into tears, Sonny Bono had to look away from Jack Zimmerman as he testified about the babies, and the effects the gas had on them.

Buffalo Bob Sez: Janet Reno; I hope your last years are full of constant, intense pain. I hope every shake of your deteriorating condition reminds you of the babies and mothers who wriggled in pain. You authorized the use of CS gas which was banned for use against foreign enemies by an international agreement in 1969. Usage of CS gas, is considered a "crime against humanity" and is punishable by prison and severe penalties, yet you found it suitable to use against Texas women, children and babies.

I hope the end comes the same for you as it did for those two criminals in the movie Ghost. I wish I could be there in your last moments as those dark deamons rise from the ashes of Hell itself to take you kicking and screaming to meet your Master whom you have served so well, as you begin to serve your eternal sentence in the place reserved for Elite Members of the New Butt Order (NBO).

"There is no spot of ground so holy as where defeated valor lies."

[Native American Female Vet]

LOL.... and they call us Tin Foil Hats

[DoughtyOne]

Like many others, I also have both Waco Tapes. I friend of mine also gave me a third, less informative tape, but also worthwhile.

I've watched the scenes where the flashes are shown. Folks, the government hasn't a shred of credibility on this topic. The flashes are gunfire, plain and simple.

Consider a helicopter flying over the scene. Glass would have to been lined up in a neat little row, so that as the helicopter moved, the flashes would appear at the proper rate to mimic the muzzle flashes. Even then the flashes would have to move along the line of broken glass. When glass breaks, it doesn't align in a straight row. It rests in a patch of broken shards. Why then don't the reflections appear to jump around? The broken glass scenario is nonsense.

If I remember correctly, there was more than one location where gunfire could be seen. In neither instance does the "reflaction" theory hold up under scrutiny. In neither instance does the flashes resemble reflections that jump around as in a patch of broken glass.

The juvenality, if there is such a word, of the federal government on this topic is mammoth. Nobody believes them. It would have been far easier to admit to their actions and deal with the heat, than forever forveit any claim to honesty on the topic. Our federal government was guilty of mass murder IMO.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Hey _Jim what do the _jackboots say?

[HiTech RedNeck]

I think Danforth got snowed by the military's coverup and he happily accepted it as a sheeple. I don't believe he gave independent thought to the issue. It would have been politically impossible.

[HiTech RedNeck]

"defeated valor"

Not to exactly canonize the BD's either. This is one group of idiots with superior firepower storming another group of idiots (and many innocent children getting caught in the middle). By the way the BD's were left wing idiots. The thing that's alarming about this for rightists is that they could be next.

[Fred Mertz]

When was the Danforth official Waco report released? Extra credit: what else was happening at that time?

[Askel5]

Who you gonna believe?

Oh, by all means, I believe the Feds who were "100%" certain and delivered their final whitewash on November 8, 2000 under cover of "Election Crisis".

[prambo]

_Jim, oh _Jim???!!

Where you at, boy???

Calling all gubmint stooges and apologists!!!!

Cripes you just can't get good stooges, minions, and mouthpieces anymore. What a shame.

prambo

[HiTech RedNeck]

I ain't _Jim but _Jim is. Hey _Jim put on those _jackboots. You're bein' called out!

[DoughtyOne]

Could someone please help _Jim on with his boots. That's a little technical for a guy that hasn't seen anything wrong with anything the Clinton BATF or FBI ever did. Perhaps you could help him type too.

[_Jim]

Ya know - threre's a REAL SIMPLE test that these so-called 'experts' could perform to PROVE their case - but that CAN'T perform said test because it WON'T prove their case ...

This so-called 'expert' in this piece ALSO KNOWINGLY overlooks a very stout source of IR in the immediate vicinity of the series of so-called 'flashes' in the rear - the engine area of the tracked vehicle performing the hole punching and gas insertion ops ... OF COURSE she doesn't mention that (it would KILL the 'case' she is atempting to argue).

That's the way it is with ALL these wild 'conspiracy' theories - NONE of them hold water ...

[Aurelius]

BUMP